Antarctic resource extraction and colonization vs. Mars/moon/Titan/asteriods

ace99

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People love talking about colonization and extracting resources from stuff in space, but the transport cost of shipping it back to Earth often means that its not worth it.

Given that we have an entire unexploited continent with potentially:

ANTARCTICA RESOURCES


ICE:

One of Antarctica's most important resources is ice. It is said that
Antarctica's ice accounts for 90% of the worlds fresh water. As a resource
it has potential as a fresh water supply. Some people have considered
towing icebergs from Antarctica to parts of the world in need of fresh
water. At present the delivery costs make these ventures unprofitable.
Another possible use of the ice on Antarctica is as a long term deep freeze
storage site for grain and other foods. Again the costs of shipping and
handling are prohibitive.


COAL:

There are coal deposits found along the coast of Antarctica. It is also
very wide spread throughout the Transantarctic Mountains. These deposits
were formed between 35 million and 55 million years ago when Antarctica was
covered by ancient swamps. Coal forms in swamps as plants die and are
buried before they can be completely decomposed. They are then covered by
other sediments such as sand and mud. This burial allows the hydrocarbons
in the coal to be preserved for future generations to use.

Coal is used as a source of direct heat and also to generate electricity in
coal burning power plants. The main problem of developing coal in
Antarctica is that the cost of mining and delivering the coal is so much
higher than the cost of coal in the rest of the world market. It may be
possible for coal to be used in some small research stations for a source of
heat.


PETROLEUM:

Petroleum deposits are formed when plants and small animal remains are
buried in a marine environment by sand and mud. These remains then build up
as hydrocarbons and are trapped by a layer of rock that the hydrocarbons
cannot pass through. These cap rocks then store the petroleum underground
until it is pumped out by wells. At this time there has been no petroleum
exploration attempted and there are no known petroleum resources in
Antarctica.



Most of the speculation about petroleum in Antarctica comes from finding
petroleum on the other Southern continents which were at one time connected
together. The petroleum deposits thought to be on the offshore regions of
Antarctica would probably be most feasible to obtain although they would
have to be exceptionally large to be considered for exploitation because of
the following enormous exploration and development problems:

-Deeper water over the continental shelves;

-The presence of sea ice and icebergs;

-Short work season and hostile climate.

Comparisons with other Gondwana continents suggest the existence of
petroleum reserves in the interior of Antarctica. But these lie below the
thick ice, ruling out development. This is due not only to the thickness of
the ice but also the fact that it is sliding slowly towards the coast. This
makes drilling through the ice and into the rock very difficult.


METALLIC MINERALS:

Mineral resources have not been found in great quantities so far due to the
small amount of rock that is exposed. It is believed that since the other
continents that were once attached to Antarctica to form Gondwana have
metallic and nonmetallic minerals, that Antarctica probably has similar
minerals. It is also known that rock layers such as those in Antarctica
commonly contain large amounts of cobalt, chromium, nickel, vanadium,
copper, iron and platinum group minerals.

The search for sizable concentrations of metallic minerals below the ice
will be a difficult prospecting venture which will require costly
geophysical and geochemical surveying and core drilling. Geologists have
found small deposits of minerals in Antarctica but these deposits are low in
quality and occur in widely scattered places. The peninsula seems to have
the highest probability of containing economic base-metal deposits. Most of
the minerals were formed or deposited during the formation of Antarctica and
the other continents that made up Gondwana.

At what point will it become economically feasible to extract these resources, and will we be resorting to this before space colonization or after? The same concern about shipping to markets exist, but its cheaper to ship things from Antarctica than Mars or the Moon surely?
 
These resources will become viable when we tap into those Antarctic coal seems, burn them and raise CO2 levels to the point where the rest of the ice cap melts. Win Win :p

Seriously though, getting at the resources and returning them from Antarctica is always going to be very pricey. I mean, I guess I could see some technologies coming along that would be game changers (portable fusion plants? IDK). But any such technologies would also be useful for solar system resource extraction given the similarities in the challenges faced.

I think that because of this, if we do start exploiting resources in the Antarctic, it will happen around the same time as stellar resource extraction, if at all. Why plunder yet another continent on Earth (and potentially face more climate change issues) when there are plenty of barren rocks in space to blow up for stuff?

I would like to point out that sending off robotic mining equipment is very expensive, but not necessarily more so than setting up mining outfit in Antarctica. Bringing back the mined resources would be trivial - you use the asteroid regolith to make a heat shield/ore container, strap on a small motor and use asteroidal ice to fuel the cargo load back to Earth.
 
Just a semi-related thought: If we're going to think about colonizing the Moon and Mars, why not think about Antarctica and other mercilessly unpleasant and virtually uninhabitable places on Earth? It'd be a lot easier to pull off, and just as pointless.
 
Don't need to even discuss this guys.
Free hand of the market has got this.
 
As long as something like 99% of Antarcticas surface is below a mile or so of moving glacier ice, and behind an ocean covered by several meters of pack ice for most of the year, anything short of unobtanium isn't worth extracting there.

Even though the economics would be still much, much more sensible than any kind of extraterrestial mining.

But the pack ice problem might be taken care of and at least a small part of the ice sheet on land could be gone in a century or two, rendering it not much different from gold or oil extraction from Alaska at that point.

Unless humanity has access to virtually limitless cheap energy, extraterrestial mining won't be feasible, and given enough energy any resource shortage could be solved here on earth.
Hobbsyoyo, good luck finding your ice on small bodies inside of Jupiter's orbit unless you want to go chasing after comets :p
 
I could see drilling for oil work, if you can find a place where the ice is not moving a lot. Does oil freeze?
 
As long as something like 99% of Antarcticas surface is below a mile or so of moving glacier ice, and behind an ocean covered by several meters of pack ice for most of the year, anything short of unobtanium isn't worth extracting there.
I agree with you here.

Even though the economics would be still much, much more sensible than any kind of extraterrestial mining.
Not true. You don't have to plow through pack ice with a multi-million dollar icebreaker ship with a multi-million dollar convoy following it to bring back resources from an asteroid. You could automate a return from Antartica probably as easily as you could automate an asteroidal return, so you could save money there. I'd even go so far as to say that by the time we have the robotics capable of mining an asteroid (not far off) we could probably apply them to Antartica as well (though in many ways the environment in Antartica is much harsher for machines); so I'll call that even as well.

However, you have to spend much more resources to get the resources back from Antartica due to what I just said about icebreakers/tankers, plus the fact that rocket fuel is on asteroids and a robot ship can float for free in space until it's trajectory brings it back to Earth + most of the materials you would build the return ship out of come from the asteroid, which you can't say about a tanker or a icebreaker.


But the pack ice problem might be taken care of and at least a small part of the ice sheet on land could be gone in a century or two, rendering it not much different from gold or oil extraction from Alaska at that point.
Yeah probably. Eh, it would probably still be colder, but maybe close enough. :dunno: The distance to Antartica is pretty far too, so we have to consider that. There are places not to far from the Antartic coast, but I don't think they are built up to handle a massive effort like sending off a mining expedition.

With space mining, you just use one of the pads you have already got to launch the stuff. The scale of infrastructure to start such a venture is smaller for asteroid mining, on the ground at least. You still have to build infratructure up in space, but you'd have to build it up in Antartica as well, so it's a wash here. But you don't have to go and build more pads to send stuff to space where you *might* need more ports/bigger ports to send stuff on this scale to Antartica. But I could be wrong.


Unless humanity has access to virtually limitless cheap energy, extraterrestial mining won't be feasible, and given enough energy any resource shortage could be solved here on earth.
We do have access to limitless cheap energy in space; it's called 24/7 sunlight. You're looking at this the wrong way.

In any case, why would you want to wreck another continent and incur more environmental penalties when the technology needed to exploit Antartica is much the same you'd need to exploit space? Why wreck our home when there is lots of dirtballs in space to wreck? Hell, it'd be easier and cheaper to do that simply because you *could* wreck them without recourse.

Hobbsyoyo, good luck finding your ice on small bodies inside of Jupiter's orbit unless you want to go chasing after comets :p
Inside of Jupiter's orbit is a hellhole, the radiation is extreme there. So I won't be looking for them there. :p

However, there are lots of near earth asteroids we could exploit that are relatively close, both physically and from a delta-V perspective (a measure of how much energy it takes to get somewhere in space). Asteroids and many moons also have much water, and believe it or not, many asteroids were former comets that lost most of their surface layers of water over time. But they still have it buried beneath the regolith.

I could see drilling for oil work, if you can find a place where the ice is not moving a lot. Does oil freeze?

Yeah brah, it's not helium. :p

(cars in Alaska have special plugs where you can plug in their heating units in parking lots to prevent this)
 
You don't have to plow through pack ice with a multi-million dollar icebreaker ship with a multi-million dollar convoy following it
You can buy a cruise to Antartica for less than 10k.
 
You can buy a cruise to Antartica for less than 10k.
True, but those cruises aren't exactly bringing along heavy duty mining equipment and all the supplies and gear for an extending mining expedition off the ice shelf far inland from the coast.

They also don't have equipment to drill/melt through 3 mile thick ice sheets either.

You're going to need a lot of equipment and big ships and you are going to have to have an ice breaker probably for insurance purposes if nothing else.
 
Well, drilling through ice is not *that* difficult, not rocket science one might say, and frozen ground also seems possible, since there is oil production in Alaska and Siberia. I suppose it is important how far away from the coast one needs to be.

Also, one might note that there are quite large scientific complexes on Antartica and the middle of Greenland. These had to be built some way, and if they can, so can the oil companies.
 
Well, drilling through ice is not *that* difficult, not rocket science one might say, and frozen ground also seems possible, since there is oil production in Alaska and Siberia. I suppose it is important how far away from the coast one needs to be.
Drilling through and melting through that much ice is difficult, it is compressed to the point that it's harder than rock and then you have actual rock beneath it. Sure, maybe you could put an oil well in, but how do you put a mine shaft through that?

And the environment itself is as much of a challenge to deal with wrt the havoz it plays with equipment as is the mining itself.

Also, one might note that there are quite large scientific complexes on Antartica and the middle of Greenland. These had to be built some way, and if they can, so can the oil companies.

True story brohammad. (I wouldn't quite call them 'large' scientific complexes compared to the size of a typical mine or oil field, but point taken)
 
Nobody lives on Antarctica, who cares about wreaking it? (Aside from penguins but screw them, arrogant flightless birds)
 
True, but those cruises aren't exactly bringing along heavy duty mining equipment and all the supplies and gear for an extending mining expedition off the ice shelf far inland from the coast.

Even if we just consider the weight of the passenger himself, the transportation costs for bringing one there and back must be less than 100$/kg. If we add in the necessary supplies and accommodations, it is probably less than 10$/kg. So there is more than a factor of 1000 in cost to bring anything to Moon or Mars compared to Antarctica.

I fail to see why it should ever be more economical to leave earth for mining than going to Antarctica short of either the resources of Antarctica already being all but exhausted or the penguins staging an armed revolt.
 
...
However, there are lots of near earth asteroids we could exploit that are relatively close, both physically and from a delta-V perspective (a measure of how much energy it takes to get somewhere in space). Asteroids and many moons also have much water, and believe it or not, many asteroids were former comets that lost most of their surface layers of water over time. But they still have it buried beneath the regolith.

[Citation needed, for the water/ice]
AFAIK most of the asteroid belt is within the zone that was cleared of volatiles during the formation of the solar system.

And you are basically claiming that the technology for cost effective, self assembling/replicating, fully autonomous space factories is practically around the corner, or did I misunderstood something there? :cool:

I think a bit of math and physics might provide some grounding here.
 
People love talking about colonization and extracting resources from stuff in space, but the transport cost of shipping it back to Earth often means that its not worth it.

Given that we have an entire unexploited continent with potentially:

(...)

At what point will it become economically feasible to extract these resources, and will we be resorting to this before space colonization or after? The same concern about shipping to markets exist, but its cheaper to ship things from Antarctica than Mars or the Moon surely?


Your argument is based in a partially wrong premise, which is that colonization of space is being proposed as a way to obtain resources for Earth. That is incorrect.

The main rationale for colonizing space is not economic, at least not in its entirety. The rationale is to establish and expand human presence *outside* the boundaries of Earth, to create independent branches of human civilization that would, should something terrible happen here on Earth, continue our species and our culture. Besides this, it is generally believed in the space community that colonizing space will stimulate growth of the kind of advancement we desire - in other words, money spent on colonizing space will mostly end up boosting innovation, which in turn will improve living standards of people on Earth.

Eventually, when our presence in space is solid enough, we might think about bringing some resources back to Earth to alleviate the environmental problems we have, but this isn't something that will become apparent soon enough to be counted on.

---

People who say "colonizing Antarctica/the sea-floor/the underground is easier and cheaper than colonizing space" are missing the point. Earth is limited. Space is unlimited. Once we learn how to live outside Earth, we have the whole Universe at our disposal, with its infinite opportunities. That's something that nothing here on Earth can give us.

And personally, I think it's not such an outrageous proposition to leave at least *one* continent here on Earth unspoiled by humans. Just one, is that so much to ask?
 
[Citation needed, for the water/ice]
C-Type Asteroids:
They are the most common variety, forming around 75% of known asteroids,[1] and an even higher percentage in the outer part of the asteroid belt beyond 2.7 AU, which is dominated by this asteroid type. The proportion of C-types may actually be greater than this, because C-types are much darker than most other asteroid types except D-types and others common only at the extreme outer edge of the asteroid belt.
...
Asteroids of this class have spectra very similar to those of carbonaceous chondrite meteorites (types CI and CM). The latter are very close in chemical composition to the Sun and the primitive solar nebula, except for the absence of hydrogen, helium and other volatiles. Hydrated (water-containing) minerals are present
...
The so-called "water" absorption feature around 3 μm, which can be an indication of water content in minerals is also present.

Not so dry after all:
Ices are still unstable in the outer belt (pure, transparent, white snow may be stable, yet dirty snow continues to absorb sunlight and warm enough to sublimate). The ice only sublimates slowly and was present long enough that it might melt (from the heat of impacts or the decay of radioactive isotopes) allowing liquid water to interact with existing minerals to form hydrates, carbonates, clays, and the other water-bearing minerals found in carbonaceous chondrites. These asteroids of the outer belt contain up to 22% water, based on actual measurements of the water content of carbonaceous chondrite meteorites.

Further out, approaching the orbit of Jupiter, even dirty ice may be stable to sublimation, and the resulting bodies are more properly called comets, as the bulk of their mass is comprised of water ice.

Water found on asteroid
The asteroid, called 24 Themis, appears to be covered with a thin layer of frost. The researchers also found evidence of molecules containing carbon.

This is the first time that water or organic compounds has been found on asteroids.

The astronomers used telescopes at NASA's Infrared Telescope Facility on Hawaii's Mauna Kea mountain to analyze light reflected by the asteroid. The spectrum of the light was consistent with the presence of water and carbon-containing molecules
The water was surprising to find, the researchers said, because at the temperature of the asteroid belt, about –120 to –70 C, water ice vapourizes into space.

The asteroids are billions of years old, so the ice on the surface must be replenished somehow. The astronomers said the most likely source is inside the asteroids.


"This implies that ice is quite abundant in the interior of 24 Themis and perhaps many other asteroids. This ice on asteroids may be the answer to the puzzle of where Earth's water came from," said Emery.

Because asteroids are usually thought of as dry, rocky bodies, the discovery of water on 24 Themis is blurring the line between what's considered a comet and what's an asteroid.
Astronomers have long thought or known that asteroids had water, but in the last article here they have proven it.

Also, companies are already forming to go and mine asteroids.Personally, I put my money on the billionaire backers of such companies to figure out what is economically possible.


AFAIK most of the asteroid belt is within the zone that was cleared of volatiles during the formation of the solar system.
Water found on Mercury
Water found on the Moon
Water on Mars
(I posted multiple sources for water on Asteroids above)
The solar system is vast, with many different climate regimes and places for water to hide, even wouldn't it should be there by all rights. There is no spot you can really say is 'cleared of volatiles'; they were simply herded into special places, bound into rocks or moved further out.

And you are basically claiming that the technology for cost effective, self assembling/replicating, fully autonomous space factories is practically around the corner, or did I misunderstood something there? :cool:
Yep, that's what I said in a nutshell. The reality will be much less grand than you might be thinking. Really, the equipment will be small and flimsy to save weight, but much of the underlying technology to do this stuff exists already or is in development.

I'll try and dig up a thread where I covered this in detail to save myself having to retype it all.

Even if we just consider the weight of the passenger himself, the transportation costs for bringing one there and back must be less than 100$/kg. If we add in the necessary supplies and accommodations, it is probably less than 10$/kg. So there is more than a factor of 1000 in cost to bring anything to Moon or Mars compared to Antarctica.

I fail to see why it should ever be more economical to leave earth for mining than going to Antarctica short of either the resources of Antarctica already being all but exhausted or the penguins staging an armed revolt.
You are underestimating the cost of mining Antarctica here. The equipment you would need to dig up and return resources from an asteroid can be much lighter than what you'd need to drill through 3 miles or so of compressed ice and then through the rock of Antartica. Plus, you don't have to feed a robot or take extra precaution to make sure it lives. That alone will drive up the cost of an Antarctic expedition.

Many asteroids contain trillions of dollars worth of precious and rare-earth metals that are much easier to get at than pretty much anything of value in Antartica.
 
Honestly, the only serious difficulty I can see in drilling for oil on Antarctica is movement of ice, which might destroy your drill holes, which would suck.

As been shown here, going to Antarctica is pretty easy. Tourists go there by boat, you can even fly by helicopter. Antarctic astronomy is already a big thing, and getting bigger. It is because it's cheaper and easier than putting a satellite in orbit, let alone getting a satellite to fly to somewhere else. In terms of hostility, it isn't that much worse than some of the hell holes we currently get our oil from.

The Russians have been drilling ice cores from Antarctica since forever, so the technology is certainly there. And you could probably make most of the process computer automated.
 
Honestly, the only serious difficulty I can see in drilling for oil on Antarctica is movement of ice, which might destroy your drill holes, which would suck.
So do you think this is only realistically exploitable resource there? I think it is, and even then I'm not sure. You have to find the oil before you can drill it and I honestly don't know if that's possilbe under those circumstances right now.

There are also many other resources to be had in space.

As been shown here, going to Antarctica is pretty easy. Tourists go there by boat, you can even fly by helicopter. Antarctic astronomy is already a big thing, and getting bigger. It is because it's cheaper and easier than putting a satellite in orbit, let alone getting a satellite to fly to somewhere else.
But again, any resource extraction attempts will require vastly more infrastructure both in Antartica and the recieving ports than what it takes to send a few tourists and maintain a few small bases. Any attempt to extract resources will necessary require a huge oil field or mine unless there is a solid lump of Unobtanium to be had.

You don't have to send out a ton of equipment to mine an asteroid and just getting what you do need into orbit takes the majority of the effort and expense for the whole mission. Setting up a mine or an oilfield capable of making good returns is going to take as much or more effort and money on the Antartic site as it will on getting it all together to send over.

In terms of hostility, it isn't that much worse than some of the hell holes we currently get our oil from.
I really don't think this is true - my comment was on the conditions the equipment has to deal with, I wasn't talking about hostile natives or anything.

The Russians have been drilling ice cores from Antarctica since forever, so the technology is certainly there. And you could probably make most of the process computer automated.

Drilling ice cores for scientific research isn't the same as drilling an oil well and setting up a play. I do agree much of it could probably be automated and as I've stated before, techniques and gear useful in Antartica would be helpful for asteroid mining and vice versa.
 
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