Any hints on research strategy?

[Simon Appleton]

Anyone got any thoughts about research strategy?

For example - is it better to go for a "narrow, deep" strategy, pushing far down a particular line of research or for a "broad front" strategy of researching all the lower level techs?

Is is sensible to trade techs with the AI?

I've been going narrow deep to get the techs for key wonders or other things I want fast, but it leaves me short of basic techs for some troops and city upgrades. Thankfully, friendly AI Civs have kept volunteering trades that fill in the gaps, at the cost of surrendering some of my research lead. The trades seem broadly "fair" in terms of research beaker costs and so I usually accept, improving our relations. I suspect the AI will trade with itself and catch up some of the ground anyway, so I may as well cash in while I can.

However, as a Civ2 vet, I feel my approach is rather ad hoc. In that earlier game, the deep narrow strategy would pay off due to free techs due to the Great Library and I'd take care not to sell techs no other AIs knew. Now, I feel I'm groping more in the dark for a strategy.

[I guess the answer depends on the difficulty level and victory objectives - so far, I'm thinking noble/space race.]

Thanks for any thoughts!

 

[CrackedCrystal]

I will usually get to pottery for my worker improvements, then blast to Theocracy as fast as possible. Then begin going down the industrial techs (ironworking, blah blah blah).

Once my empire is large enough to research other tech (like fishing, animal husbandry, whatnot) in one turn, I'll spend a couple turns to catch them up.

It works fairly well for my play style on the "lower mid-range" difficulties.

 

[Toshiro126]

On Civ III, I had the researching down cold on what paths I wanted to take. With Civ IV, at least on Noble level, I'm still trying to figure it out. My early research has been geared more towards founding religions, and trying to figure out the best way to use the benefits from them. One thing I like about Civ IV is that fact the research path can vary a lot from game to game

I try not to trade techs too much if possible, especially if I am going for a space race and I am leading in the tech field. If I do, I like to make sure I have a few more techs than the AI that I am dealing with. I like to try and leave them behind me if possible.

 

[weimingshi]

well, on higher difficulty, you can't shoot for a single line of tech to top anymore, yes some techs you can trade from AI, but alot of them you got to research it on your own. reason is Ai only trade you outdated techs or tech that lots other AI already know, they never trade you newly discovered tech and techs they need to build wonder.

ANother reason why its near impossible to shoot for 1 line is because, the later techs are very expensive if your econmy did not follow. just look at writing and alphabet, if you make a beeline for alphabete, writing take about 20 turn to research,( on epic speed, emperor level), alphabet take 50+ turns, if you choose to get alphabete early you are basically out of the game when you got alphabete. even if you do get alphabete, there is not guarantee AI will trade you all those lower lvl techs, In my game nobody would want to trade me pottery and archery, I researched pottery on my own, I only got archery when industrial age was around the corner.

 

[Hergrom]

Anyone got any thoughts about research strategy?

For example - is it better to go for a "narrow, deep" strategy, pushing far down a particular line of research or for a "broad front" strategy of researching all the lower level techs?

Is is sensible to trade techs with the AI?

However, as a Civ2 vet, I feel my approach is rather ad hoc. In that earlier game, the deep narrow strategy would pay off due to free techs due to the Great Library and I'd take care not to sell techs no other AIs knew. Now, I feel I'm groping more in the dark for a strategy.

[I guess the answer depends on the difficulty level and victory objectives - so far, I'm thinking noble/space race.]

Thanks for any thoughts!

You are definately right about the "depends" part, very much so.

Like you, I fear, I choose what looks good at the moment far too often. I play random civ/leaders, so this is my general strategy:

1. First I will go for the techs I will need to improve resources in my capital's city radius, plus the wheel to make roads. The improved resources are very powerful in a "worked tile" sense, if not immediately for the things enabled by having a certain resource.

2. Then I go for my religion, generally bagging Judaism. I keep going for a religion at all costs until I found one. Religion *seems* to be too important not to have. I know others have had success without one, but I have not.

3. Grab archery for defense against the coming barbarian waves.

4. This is where the "depends" comes in. If you are going for conquest / domination, you probably want to go down the Iron Working path. If you are going for space, then you may want to go for Alphabet (or whatever tech enables tech trading). If you are going for culture, then you probably want to pinpoint techs providing wonders, and do not trade them at all costs. If you are alone on an island, you want to go for Optics to build caravels to explore and find the other civs.

If you are going to try the wood-chop strategy, then your initial tech chioces are rather pronounced - Get Bronze Working as quickly as possible, then probably reverse numbers 1 & 2 above. 3 and 4 should follow as normal.

(note: I have tried the wood-chop strategy, and it does work. But, i don't particualrly like it much... just doesn't "feel" right to me.)

The big difference between Civ IV and prior versions is the AI trading habits. No matter if they are cautious or friendly with you, they just do not seem to want to trade many of the techs with you. When they do trade, they are very fair trades, but you cannot depend on the AI to research for you like you did in Civ III. So this lessens the effectiveness of going deep down the tree. That said, I still like to do so - mainly to target key units, buildings, civics, etc. for my victory choice and play style.

 

[petey]

Ya, I've learned not to trust the AI to get techs for me, regardless of our relationship. There've been many times when everything is very positive between us and I have techs that he doesn't have and vice versa, all at the same level, but they just don't give you the option of asking for them.

Every now and again they'll let something go, but most of the time I'm researching everything myself, regardless of who else has what.

 

[Zhahz]

The only thing I'm ever concerned with is my first few choices as they heavily impact early development. After that it's always going to vary based on situational needs and my goal(s). In the long run I make an effort to get the techs that give free great people but it doesn't always work out.

So far I have two openings. I either go for an early religion (usually via polytheism) or I go for bronzeworking asap (to chop chop for rapid early expansion - just started trying this). After either I'll get a few techs for tile development. If I do a religious start I'll usually still get bronzeworking to expose the resource, be able to clear forests, and build spearmen. If do the chop chop route I'll usually try for a religion after some tile techs.

 

[Ape Drape]

I usually hit the science techs first as there usually isn't much need for extensive military research early on. Get the smart techs and eventually all the military techs can be researched quickly.

 

[eewallace]

I have to admit that trading techs with the AI civs really annoys me. I do it because I have to, but I grit my teeth every time, because the AIs simply won't give me a fair deal! For trading and selling resources, I often get very good deals, but not a single one of the other civs, no matter what my relationship with them, ever wants to do anything like an even trade for tech. They alway want my most advanced tech (or 2) in exchange for their worst one, and turn down any offer I make that is a little more balanced. Grrrrr!

 

[Vizzini]

No plan survives contact with the enemy - in this case the enemy is :

* The location of your starting city.
* The resources available to your starting city.
* Your Civ's starting techs
* Your leaders traits
* Your plan for winning the game.

You can generalize quite a bit of course. Things like "Get a religion" or "Get to Bronze so I can Chop-rush" etc. Beyond that don't bother making a detailed research plan because it's almost guaranteed to go right out the window on the very first turn.

 

[fightcancer]

In another thread, WoundedKnight advocated:
Bronze Working for tree-chopping, then found a religion (e.g. Meditation, Polytheism, or Monotheism), then get Alphabet to trade techs.

I concur.

 

[OG_Pieps]

After some various tryings I arrived at the dessicion, that it is good to go for all technologies in the first column because they are all usefull. Then I try to reach a religion first and go for monarchy. If I need it I go for riding before.

 

[Gufnork]

In a peaceful game I often go Bronze Working for chopchop, get a religion, Priesthood for Oracle then Pottery before Oracle completes to get Metal Casting for free.

 

[Shillen]

In another thread, WoundedKnight advocated:
Bronze Working for tree-chopping, then found a religion (e.g. Meditation, Polytheism, or Monotheism), then get Alphabet to trade techs.

I concur.

Skipping roads and archers? On monarch+ the barbs start sending archers at you very early in the game. If you only have warriors you're not in very good shape. Roads are self-explanatory. Hell even pottery is huge to start building up those cottages. Personally I'm not a fan of rushing to alphabet unless you're trying to achieve a 1700s space ship victory or something and are relying on the AI's researching for you.

 

[Vizzini]

Barb archers are only a threat if you're attacking them. If they're attacking you your defensive bonuses will make sushi out of them.

A fortified warrior on a forested hill is totally immune to barbarians (short of a barbarian Swordsman) but will attract them like a magnet. ie, put him out where the barbs are coming from and no passing barbarian can resist - they'll attack and skewer themselves on that massive defensive bonus.

 

[Gufnork]

Well, immune is a bit of an exaggeration, so I suggest you bring two. But yeah, barbarian archers doesn't make archery important. Starting next to Montezuma makes archers important.

 

[Dairuka]

Personally, if you're researching beelining for the Alphabet, you've lost the early game.

There is a reason why I rush the construction of the Oracle to get Metal Working, why would I waste my time getting Alphabet which takes just as long as to research Metal Working, BEFORE I get Priesthood? Hell, even after it's just not worth it. 99% of the time, even on Emperor or Immortal Difficulties, I find myself getting a slight lead of technology, and any technologies that I'm missing, I have little to no chance of receiving. Even my defensive pact allies refuse to trade...

It's better to beeline for Writing, and pump out a library in your capital during your early game. Those extra 3-10 beakers from your capital city will mean far more than 20 turns waiting for Alphabet to come around just so you can trade for The Wheel and Pottery... Especially since you essentially cut every Ancient Era technology research time down by 1-2 turns just by putting down on library on a city adjacent to a river. Throw in some cottages, and you got yourself a technology lead on an AI on Emperor Level!

 

[RoddyVR]

i go for worker(s) early so...
i usualy get the hunting/agriculture/animalhusbundry/sailing techs that i will need for my capitol first.
then i usualy take the road one, and if my capitol doesnt have good food production, i'll take pottery for the granary but this is rare.
then i go for bronze working. if i have bronze close by i dont go for iron right away, if i dont have a bronze i go for iron working right away too.
then its off to writing for a library.

i have never understood the point of archers. even with their 50-70% bonuses defending in cities, they still dont compare to plain old axemen in strength. and wood chopping is great!

i usualy ignore the religeous techs, cause i rarely start with mystisism (dont play religeous type civs) and so i always think the AI will beat me to the two early religeons (i'm usualy right too, they get it way earlier then i could have) and i dont want to spend all the time to get judaism or christianity.

after writing its a question of what i think i need most next. i can bealine for the drama tech, cause i love theatres (cheap culture for new cities).
or go for calendar if i have a lot of the "later" luxury resourses.
or go back to fill in the wholes that i left earlier (like hunting to get the elephant i've now settled a city next to, or fishing if i've settled a coastal city (other then my capitol, cause if capitol is coastal i get fishing and usualy sailing early)

 

[verbal13]

I typically like to play larger maps so I usually use the Persians (Expansive,Creative). My tech path for the early game is 'generally' the same for most large maps. As others have said before the exact path will always 'depend' on game conditions as it is important to adapt.

I usually try to get a few of the basic tile improvement techs early like Pottery, Mining, Agriculture(Persians start with Agriculture). I will also try to pick up bronze working quickly as well to chop forests.

Usually if your leader doesn't start with Mysticism you will miss out on the very early religions, so I use this time to get those tile improvement techs. Typically the first religions the Persians can found is Confucianism, or at least thats what I try to do. So after the basic techs I try to beeline to Code of Laws. Depending on my opponents I will also try to build the Oracle to get the free tech and depending on how close I feel my oppenents are to me technologically use it to get Code of Laws.

After this point, if I feel my defenses are up to snuff, I may try to pick up an additional religion and go for Divine Right as well. If I feel I am behind defensively I will usually pick up Iron Working and then head to Gunpowder.

Again though, it all varies, and adaptability is the key. The longer the game goes on, the more adaptable you need to be.

Edit: Almost forgot to add, the reason I typically skip archery is that the Persians UU is the Immortal. If horses are near and you have The Wheel tech, you can pump those out very very fast and cheap. They provide great defense and offense, especially when the barbs rush with Archers as they have +100% vs archer units.

 

[Heroes]

I think it's a good idea to learn currency (enabling gold trade) before alphabet (enabling tech trade). If you get alphabet first, the available deals are just tech for tech, and you often have to pay more because you can't get the cash change. What's worse, some one would come to demand some tech, and if you refuse, you lose their friendship. So why not learn currency first, then you can get the full benefit of trade, and leave AIs to have the trouble of alphabet without currency.