Anyone else think the way you get through Affinities is.. stupid?

Discussion in 'CivBE - General Discussions' started by Infiltrator, Oct 27, 2014.

  1. mnf

    mnf King

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    Quests are great but in the end they are fixed events. What the affinity system need, is to integrate itself into the actual gameplay actions more closely so that different affinities play the game slightly differently.

    As it stands, the different affinities are just reskins of the same set of things for unit upgrades, and they offer no choice because you can have them all.
     
  2. lordrune

    lordrune Prince

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    I wonder if there's a way to mod the game so that only the dominant affinity applies - because I'm not sure if the game's balanced that well for the multi-affinity playstyle.
     
  3. mnf

    mnf King

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    It's possible to mod the game to take out all the affinity bonuses from the tech web, and instead tie them into quests. But then we may have to rebalance the whole tech web to account for this.
     
  4. Callonia

    Callonia Deity

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    That's where you're wrong about floatstones!

    It does and will remind me of earth. Because Floatstones is rocks that currently only exist in Earth's fantasy and myths and stories.

    Examples.

    I hope you have watched Back to the future movies.
    Arc Purtians will go, hey, won't we be able to make hoverboards now at last?


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoverboard

    And then, that isn't all.

    Skies of Arcadia.
    Look! Flying airships powered by magical moonstones aka rocks xD


    Lev Destroyer is the closest I can get to skies of arcadia ingame. And then there is floating continents etc.

    Those is just first two examples off the top of my head.
     
  5. Talcove

    Talcove Slayer of Spies

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    In my first game the biggest murderers of aliens, that I saw, were Polystralia. and the Slavic Federation. Why do I mention this? Because both of these factions were majority Harmony. They sent an entire army into my island just to eradicate the aliens on it (Which, btw, I managed to stop). The Supremacy and Purity factions, by contrast, were nice[r] to the aliens! That's just silly.
     
  6. Sal

    Sal Warlord

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    Lol! Love it ��
     
  7. Krajzen

    Krajzen Deity

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    Somewhere during the game I chose the technology to grab affinity points and suddenly the realization came - wait, what the hell I am doing? This is what my philosophical choice is, grabbing random technologies from the entire tech tree?

    Suddenly I realized affinity choice should be based on how you play, how you terraform, how you deal with the planet, how you actually develop a civilisation and deal with humans, it should be your philosophy and grand choice...

    ...while it is basically grabbing points from techs and bonus free affinity points from quests. Said quests also don't offer any true choice because they don't offer true game/moral dilemmas. You get a quest where you choose to take +1 purity or +1 supremacy. But you decided to play supremacy when you started the game because you have already tested previous two affinities. So you instantly choose supremacy point, no matter what was written in the quest's text.
     
  8. Minor Annoyance

    Minor Annoyance Deity

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    I agree that it doesn't feel enough like you are your affinity. Playing supremacy I got to a question that said we were linking into a collective consciousness but I didn't really feel like I was that robotic. Maybe it's just because the crazy trade routes help me build so fast that I tech up too fast to feel my advancement was all that hard won.
    The game could use some 'interlude from the book of planet' type things to describe what life is like for people in your colony to get a better feel for how the bioengineering, cybernetic augmentation, or nostalgia is shaping your society.
    Also there is plenty of room in the affinity level bonuses to add more. Reduced terrascape maintenance for Purity, bonuses from forests, and planting forests from Harmony, and bonuses to artificial structure improvements for Supremacy.
     
  9. GenEngineer1

    GenEngineer1 Chieftain

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    Perhaps one way to fix it is to make it so that affinity levels are needed to unlock certain Tech, as opposed to tech giving Affinity? Find a new source for the affinities (Quest system would be fantastic if expanded on and had the frequency increased), and have the Affinity techs be barred unless you already show a devotion to that affinity.
     
  10. Haggbart

    Haggbart King

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    I think the system works rather well as it is. Some options to get affinity points from other things than quests and techs would be nice, but getting affinities from improvements/buildings/playstyle need to be neatly balanced not to get exploited the hell out of.

    Notice I don't really care about how plausible the system is, rather how well it plays. This is a game, after all.

    One things they should fix is the low requirements (13) for affinity victory projects. That number should be at least in the 15-16 range.
     
  11. Eji1700

    Eji1700 Warlord

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    I see a lot of potential in the system, but as is I agree it's awkward.

    1. Generic units- this is interesting because from my understanding of the interface, it would technically be possible to say, get your rangers to level 1 purity upgrade, and then go 12 points into say, harmony, and max them out with a harmony buff instead of the second purity buff. I say technically because realistically, if you somehow went 12/12 in purity and harmony and DIDN'T win, you're doing it wrong.

    I get that hybrids should be rare(or maybe it's just impossible anyways and that's a graphical holdover), but the extra ability to customize your units more(one of the strongest potential features) is very interesting, and I wish the "offshoot" branches were scaled down. This is especially odd when they seem to flat out acknowledge that you might want to go "wide" with the unique units, who have easy to access hybrids. I really think the final "tier" of units should require 12 or whatever in your main path, and then something like 6 or 7 in the other two(whatever the difference is from the main, plus maybe a little more to make it slightly harder).

    2. You seem to get affinity from tech/quests/virtues, in that order of frequency/importance. In game actions mattering would help, but so would just having quest rewards give specific amounts of affinity points. Murdering the siege worm shouldn't just be a flat econ bonus, that everyone does, but instead should wind up giving purity points, or maybe only even appear if you're so far down the purity path. Harmony players might instead somehow try to mess with them in other ways, or get points for getting a nest in their borders(and that whole mechanic, along with aliens themselves has tons of potential that NEEDS to be explored rather than left as is. Each affinity should interact with them VERY differently. Not "as needed the exact same").

    Purity players should get affinity points for building terrascapes, and supremacy for...i dunno...mag railing the earth? Ok so maybe that's not so great, but you get the idea. Allow us more avenues to really express/reinforce the culture and actually FEEL like that's the choice we made. Maybe even make things that harm your affinity level in one and boost in another. They'll give good bonuses, but harm hybrid players. Civ has always under explored the "in game actions" bonuses. Like the bonus for discovering the world was round in Civ 5 giving bonus embarked movement. Great idea, and rewards certain playstyles while flavorful as hell, and giving the player an idea of something they might want to do. More of that should exist.

    3. Military being related to paths is VERY interesting, and has again, tons of potential, but right now is just too binary and strange. It limits tech choices/options and hinders growth in an awkward way. This would be somewhat absolved if there were, again, other ways to get affinity points(or important amounts) besides techs, rather than forcing the "you need X amount of affinity to not die to Y player". Also i'll just add, the starting forces NEED to be better. It's silly how weak the initial units are(maybe this is a personal player skill thing, but is there ANY reason to start with a soldier? It's so weak and useless that by the time you're ready to do anything with it, you could've gotten any other bonus and been far enough ahead to afford a soldier.)

    4. Balance in general. Wonders need to matter(and should relate more to their affinities. I'd love MUCH stronger wonders that can only be built at 10 purity or 8 harmony or whatever), the orbital system is begging for more real use(there's like 4 interesting ones, and most of them relate to combat. The economic side is woefully unexplored until late game). Just...a whole bunch of stuff. If they at least tweak the balance first(arguably easier than the other overhauls) it'll help a lot with how constricting the game feels(hello trade routes).

    Honestly, the game scares me in some ways, because I see some really great stuff coming from this, and i'm worried as hell that since this isn't "Civ 6" it's not going to get the polish it might actually deserve(even though I do think it could've launched with a HELL of a lot more, and i'm not going to be happy if they charge for the first batch of polish).
     
  12. Arkangelus

    Arkangelus Prince

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    I was just coming to post the idea that improvements should be tied to the system, and the previous post mentioned it! That would be potentially the biggest thing that properly identifies how you're playing, since it'd have an immediate impact on how your land looks.

    Maybe it could be something like, building a Biowell is +1xp towards Harmony, but -1xp to Supremacy, while a Terrascape or Manufactuary is +1 Purity and -1 Harmony. Building choice could be another one, instead of the "requires Purity 4" that means you just hit the threshold then spam them everywhere, building ones affiliated with a particular way of life could boost that and knock a point off each of the others.
     
  13. ahawk

    ahawk King

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    Yep, said the same thing in at least one other thread.

    Affinities are too often science pretending to be something else. As others have said, it'd be much better if non-science options, notably how you interact with other civs and aliens, did more to increase affinity.

    That said, affinity might be too linked to victory conditions to not have it be mostly tied to science and tech choices... we already have too quick of victories, at times, as it is.
     
  14. thelastleonida

    thelastleonida Chieftain

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    I've started a discussion precisely on these premises:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=537369

    Moreover, in the "Idea and Suggestion" sub-forum there are others which discuss in detail many of the points raised in this thread.
     
  15. Monado

    Monado King

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    Playing as Harmony, I just killed every single alien I came across in a game. No negative consequences towards my affinity.

    Not what I imagined pre-release.
     
  16. Ryoga

    Ryoga King

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    On the other hand you can also play purity with aliens as your friends.

    Yep there aren't any consequences in the actual gameplay, you can do whatever you want and your ideology is just something that purely exists in the quest log.
     
  17. GenEngineer1

    GenEngineer1 Chieftain

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    Attitude towards the aliens isn't the only factor of Harmony or Purity though. Harmony wants to adapt themselves to the environment and use biotechnology, but that's not the always the same as always being nice to aliens. I think of it more as "This species is a pest, but it's vital to the ecosystem at large. Let's develop another species that's not a pest but fills the same role in the ecosystem, then drive the first extinct."

    Purity is about holding humanity and the past sacred. Part of the mistakes of the past were driving species extinct without thought, so they could be more conscious about not doing it again, even if they would always put the gain of humanity above the gain of the aliens.
     
  18. Ryoga

    Ryoga King

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    However when asked what's the catchphrases of purity faction the answer was "get off my lawn" and there is a purity only quest that require you to clear nests after you declared that you want to kill aliens.

    I've seen several attempts in this forum to revise the idea that "purity = hate aliens" and "harmony = love aliens" but the lore in the game specifically tells us that the purity affinity doesn't like aliens while it specifically states that the harmony affinity likes aliens and wants to keep them as pets.
     
  19. Winston

    Winston Warlord

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    This game is very underwhelming and the affinities should be competing against each other - the affinities shouldn't just be linked to techs but build actions, tile improvements, interactions with aliens and other colonies, and quests. Getting points in one affinity should push down points in the other affinities as the worldviews are dichotomies of each other.
    I'm going to stick with Civ 5 BNW until this is improved significantly.
     
  20. Sal

    Sal Warlord

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    This is true. There has been a lot of revision of what these words mean, especially for harmony along the lines that they want to be harmonious with the planet and become the dominant life form. Seeing the words harmony and dominant in the same sentence shows how confused it has got.

    I think they have worried too much about balancing the affinities and therefore made them identical I gameplay terms. They all give you access to a unique resource, more powefull units and a victory condition that involves building something like the utopia project from civ 5 vanilla.

    Don't get me wrong I think they were really on to a good idea with affinities and it will get there, but from where it is at the moment they need ask whether the gameplay has anything in common with the affinity type.

    It's all very well to say that purity factions are preserving humanity and changing this new world, but there needs to actually be some incentive to do that in the game, not just a story you tell yourself based on your choice of unit graphics.
     

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