Apostle Promotions are finite?

[ShakaKhan]

Happens from time to time in my games, but then reverts back to normal (possibly after a few are expended). So I guess it might be somehow tied to how many apostles are there on the map right now?

You should be able to find somewhere in game how many of that promotion are left regardless of whether the limit is based on a certain amount of each promotion you can get in a single game or if the limit is based on how many of that promotion are currently on the map. Unless this is a bug, which is why I think it probably is a bug.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

Sorry to dig up a very old post. Digging up the old post i don't have to try and explain the bug again.
I am experiencing this bug, but i only find old posts about it. All 2016-2017. Was it gone and is it back ? People stopped caring ?

Does anyone know anything more about this bug and how to deal with it (or even abuse it to get the promo combi* you want)?

*since now of course we have moksha to give our apostles 2 promotions

 

[Chefofrats]

I experienced this in several recent, completely unmoddem games, so the bug (?) is still here, to answer part of your question.

 

[Pfeffersack]

I was hit by this in my most recent game where I did go for a religious version the first time, but I'm not sure if it really a bug. Yerewan not being on the map, I encountered first the usual and intended behavior of losing first access to promtions you already picked "too often" before. Then at some point the choice reduced to only two or even one option, for a certain time the chaplan one (didn't reached the point of being unable to promote, though). However, after some religious fights and conversion activity which took both some of my own and foreign apostles from the map things started to normalize again. So I'm indeed convined that this is somehow tied to active apostles on the map.

 

[Depravo]

I was sitting pretty last game with Khmer plus Yerevan and Mont St Michel, crapping out level 3 apostles with exactly the promotions I wanted left right and centre.

Didn't realise that was usually finite - and yes, that sucks.

 

[WackenOpenAir]

I was hit by this in my most recent game where I did go for a religious version the first time, but I'm not sure if it really a bug. Yerewan not being on the map, I encountered first the usual and intended behavior of losing first access to promtions you already picked "too often" before. Then at some point the choice reduced to only two or even one option, for a certain time the chaplan one (didn't reached the point of being unable to promote, though). However, after some religious fights and conversion activity which took both some of my own and foreign apostles from the map things started to normalize again. So I'm indeed convined that this is somehow tied to active apostles on the map.

Thats quite exactly how i experienced it. Now i want to know the exact mechanics so that i can make the perfect combinations,or remove the bad ones from the list (with some apostles that can then do the enhance belief and start inquisition) and after that build a horsehockyload of apostles before promoting any more that will only get the good promotions. If i find out any more details on how it works myself, ill post an update.

 

[steveg700]

It has been around since the winter patch at least.
It does not really bug me because once known you just do not promote early ones unless you have an early advantage you want to seriously push.
If you do not delay like this (or at least only take the rubbish promotions) you tend to end up with Apostles staying at base in preparation for a later push.
Of course Mont St Michael still gives infinite Martyrs which is at least something.

Well again, this is assuming promotions aren't drawn from a common pool by all civ's. In that case, you'd be letting the other civ's suck out all the good ones.

I would be fine with having finite promotions. Indeed, possibly even in favor of it. There has to be some way to get ahead of other civ's in all the religious scuffling, and one way would be by keeping your apostles with promotions alive while others are forced to make "blank" apostles. Sort of the converse of how military units rise above the pack by gaining experience. But there should be some way to recharge an apostle's Spread Religions, because so many of the promotions are contingent on them. If an apostle gets charges from being next to a natural wonder, let me get some charges every time I move next to one. If an apostles starts with two extra charges, maybe healing from gurus can give him another. Or let them having something akin to an experience meter that increases after theo-dueling and recharges your apostle after it fills up.

The thing about religious victory right now is that it should, by all rights, be a stalemate since there's nothing like an experience system or great generals to grant units an edge over each other.* What makes it winnable for the player are the basic mistakes of the civ. They don't understand how vital Yerevan is. They don't seem to understand the value of when to make Inquisitors instead of more apostles. They don't seem to make much of use gurus. They don't understand debaters should never spend their last Spread Religion charge. They don't understand that a city center represents protection from a debater.

* I have to assume the AI is making up for it by cheating? In playing Mali, I find that AI civ's with no faith advantage have little trouble keeping up with my apostle spam rate. So, it's not just a matter of achieving superior numbers.