Apostolic Tradition OP ?

[pandasnail]

Map sizes already scale by virtue of the number of cities and religions competing over said cities.

G

Not really, no. It doesn't go from like 60 cities (8x5 +20 CS) on Standard to 90 on Huge (ie a 4:6 ratio). It goes from 60 to like 130 cities (18x5 +40 CS), pretty close to a 4 to 9 ratio. If you want it to be balanced in this way, we're going to have to add more founder beliefs.

(Not necessarily saying it needs to be balanced in that way or that your other solution is flawed, just that this reasoning is off imo)

 

[Gazebo]

Not really, no. It doesn't go from like 60 cities (8x5 +20 CS) on Standard to 90 on Huge (ie a 4:6 ratio). It goes from 60 to like 130 cities (18x5 +40 CS), pretty close to a 4 to 9 ratio. If you want it to be balanced in this way, we're going to have to add more founder beliefs.

(Not necessarily saying it needs to be balanced in that way or that your other solution is flawed, just that this reasoning is off imo)

I'm not arguing that it is a linear balance, but rather that - all factors considered (more religions, larger travel times to distant cities, more competition for wonders/CSs, more potential enemies, etc.) - city and population scaling for founder yields does happen as a byproduct of map size.

G

 

[tu_79]

I'm not arguing that it is a linear balance, but rather that - all factors considered (more religions, larger travel times to distant cities, more competition for wonders/CSs, more potential enemies, etc.) - city and population scaling for founder yields does happen as a byproduct of map size.

G

It really doesn't matter, does it? What people want is to play on any map size and keep the style.
If you need to convert double the number of cities, you need double the faith, more or less. But science, culture, golden age costs doesn't scale equally with number of cities. Double the cities is what? 50% higher tech cost? But the founder believe is giving double the yields, as they scale directly on number of cities or population.

One could accept that life is life, and the same as domination game is easier in smaller maps, religion game is easier in larger maps. But when I play smaller maps this is for technicals reasons (my old pc) and time constraints (my family), not because I like domination more than religion.
Or maps sizes could be normalized, so the experience is similar (warfare made slower for smaller maps, and religion made weaker for larger maps). This is a game designer decision to try to appeal a broader public.

 

[vide0gamer]

I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but AT still feels too strong to me, at least for wider empires. If you only get about 15 cities following only your religion with about an average of 10 pop, that's still 300f/300gp per missionary, more if you have churches. You can even just spam them in a city other than your holy one to get the yields. I seem to do a lot better in games when I pick AT and focus on spread than I do with any of the other founders.

 

[black213]

I have two issues with Apostolic Tradition, both of which have been covered in this thread.

I enjoy playing big maps, however it consequently makes AT far too powerful due to the high yields received. I think it should have a seperate scaling for different map sizes.

Secondly, spam-purchasing missionaries in an expo only to pop them there for the aforementioned yields, is cheesy yet effective. (This gave me my first pre-Radio CV, as Brazil of course. Not that I know is that worth mentioning or not, but AT synergizes with their UA well!)

 

[vide0gamer]

Even on small maps it can be pretty ridiculous. It also seems like it can be easier to spread religion in smaller maps, as there is less competition (you have 1/3 the founded religions on a small map, compared to 1/4 on standard).