Ara: History Untold

[Dale]

The important bit from the latest video:

"In Ara there's no actual fight button that you can click. If you're at war with another nation and you're in the same region as the enemy army, you're fighting". [...] "The following turn you see a report with the results and a cinematic of the battle playing out in real time".

From what I understand the system is akin to something like Crusader Kings 3, where you set up an army composition and then you send it to a region and the battle auto-resolves. The difference here is that they also include some sort of cinematic to go along with the battle.



Most likely solutions:

- A hard or soft limit tied to the army itself (Stellaris allows this limit to be increased by researching more advanced technologies);
- A supply limit tied to each region, which causes attrition to armies when above the supply limit (which is how CK3 handles it).

From the two alphas so far, and confirmed by the video......

Yes, battles are auto-resolved, and all you get to do is watch it play out.

There are no "tiles", so there is no "tile limit". As I've said a few times now, the game plays out like a Paradox title on regions. You send an army/s to a region, and a battle occurs. And yes, pre-empting your next question, multiple armies per region for the battle. (Note: this is from the two alphas, may have changed, but I suspect not from their combat video).

ARA is NOT trying to be a Civ ripoff. It is a Grand Strategy in the vein of Paradox titles, with Civ elements such as city building.

 

[UncivilizedGuy]

From Wikipedia: "In ancient Greek mythology, Ara was identified as the altar where the gods first made offerings and formed an alliance before defeating the Titans."

 

[Krajzen]

There are no "tiles", so there is no "tile limit". As I've said a few times now, the game plays out like a Paradox title on regions. You send an army/s to a region, and a battle occurs. And yes, pre-empting your next question, multiple armies per region for the battle. (Note: this is from the two alphas, may have changed, but I suspect not from their combat video).

ARA is NOT trying to be a Civ ripoff. It is a Grand Strategy in the vein of Paradox titles, with Civ elements such as city building.

Now that's interesting. So it generates random worlds to lead civilizations across eras, but they are not divided into tiles, but into entire provinces, a la Paradox games, just randomized? Is this real time?

That could actually be a smart move - instead of directly competing with civ or paradox, they could attempt to create something else by borrowing elements from both.

 

[Dale]

Now that's interesting. So it generates random worlds to lead civilizations across eras, but they are not divided into tiles, but into entire provinces, a la Paradox games, just randomized? Is this real time?

That could actually be a smart move - instead of directly competing with civ or paradox, they could attempt to create something else by borrowing elements from both.

Correct, except it wasn't real time when I played the alphas. Take note of below image (which is publicly available in the publicly available Insiders Program, so I'm not violating anything) .....

Bottom right of screen, the big round button is the turn button. The icons above it are notifications/actions to be done before you can end turn. The icons to the left of the turn button are things coming up soon in the next few turns. The eye if I remember correctly, is survey a region (scout does this mission), the tree icon I think is harvest a resource not in your lands, and the banner icon is a claim I think. So you can claim a region and it becomes yours. However, it's not part of a city, until you attach it to a city. There's different rules for what can be build on claimed and city lands. Urban improvements only in cities for instance. A bit like Old World's urban and rural tiles.

Anyways, see in the middle Baghdad. It has a region around it. Inside that region is the city centre, plus some improvements build around that city centre. Each region is like a Civ district in that it can contain a few different improvements, but unlike Civ, it's not restricted by type of improvement (eg: culture district, only culture improvements). At the southern border of Baghdad's region you can see a ghosted army icon. Looks like maybe scouts? Anyways, green health bar, and the 3 if I remember right, means 3 strength.

 

[Dale]

Oh here you go, this image is from the logging camp improvement article they posted.

This is probably more clearer explaining how building on a region works. A region is split into building sites, as seen above, where you can place different improvements. Obviously, different terrain type will affect improvement yields (eg: forest is good for logging camps, open for farms, etc) and resources on the building site can also boost an improvement (metal on a mine for instance).

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

- And a Colosseum-type arena built out in the countryside. Don't they realize that 1000s of people had to walk to that thing to see the shows?

- And their version of cities are much too spread out. Look too much like a Classical/Ancient version of modern Suburbia. To be blunt, even worse than Humankind's cities, which might sprawl ridiculously, but at least start out looking like the huddled mass of buildings they should be.

- And If Sappho is their idea of a suitable Leader for anything other than a Poetry Society, then I'm afraid the Dumbass Ideas Factor is off the charts in this game. I suspect they are including 'way too many things just because they are different from Civ and not because they make any sense at all.

- But. The battle scenes look interesting. That many troops in that small a space implies a stacking capability of some kind, and maybe even some kind of 'semi-automatic' Battle Resolution - which I've been arguing for for Civ VII for some time now, so I'll be interested to see how they handle it.

There gotta be serious challengers so F'Xis would rethink many of ill-designed features in Civ6 so these will be sorted out in Civ7. I'd prefer Panzer General style 1UPT NOT TO RETURN. but this kinda combat is in place.

 

[Civinator]

At civforum.de, Shakka made an interesting Google search:

The Iban mythology (Borneo) provides an orientation to the universe in which the Iban live. For
example, there are several myths of creation which recount how the various spheres of the
universe like sky, earth and Otherworld (Sebayan) were created. In one familiar myth on
creation, the god Raja Entala or Keri Raja Petara created two giant birds Ara and Irik. These two
birds then created the world, but the expanse of the world was too large to fit beneath the sky.
The birds Ara and Irik then compressed the world, thus producing the mountains and other
topographic features.

 

[GIO888]

Now I've seen this, I'm FAR more relaxed about what Civ VII will be like!

That's because this latest "competitive" offering seems to sit somewhere between Civ V and Humankind. Not a good look!

 

[Krajzen]

I kinda like that this new game, however it turns out, tries to go for a different 4X approach to land, beyond hexagon tiles - it's a fundamental change to the engine of how everything else works, may end up with some refreshing differences. Also thank God for no 1UPT combat/army movement. Current UI design looks terribly uninspired, but it's only alpha.

Still think the marketing is bizarrely random, they should have first outlined the main concepts and selling points of the game and released some basic information about the most fundamental stuff.

 

[Leucarum]

I kind of wish their marketing had done as good a job as this thread on sparking some interest in this game. As Dale is describing the features, they do sound interesting, but I'd have had no idea they existed from what they are putting out.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

To me it looks aesthetically pleasing. It reminds me of a citybuilder game, like City Skylines, meets Civ. My main concern is the lack of uniqueness between the different factions. As far as I'm aware, there aren't really that many differences between the different cultures as far as units or buildings? Even the traits and abilities make it to where there isn't that much uniqueness.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

To me it looks aesthetically pleasing. It reminds me of a citybuilder game, like City Skylines, meets Civ. My main concern is the lack of uniqueness between the different factions. As far as I'm aware, there aren't really that many differences between the different cultures as far as units or buildings? Even the traits and abilities make it to where there isn't that much uniqueness.

Someone who participated in the Alpha testing may be able to comment on this more effectively, but in all the shots I've seen from the game, they don't seem to have included any differentiation of architecture or structures among the factions. BUT that may be just because they are still testing mechanics and haven't elaborated further on the graphics.

On the other hand, from the first glimpse some time ago, none of the 'cities' on their maps look like historical cities. Instead, they spread out throughout a region/district like some kind of Suburban ancient/classical/medieval fantasy that never existed IRL. That massive disconnect with historical reality makes me very suspicious about the game, because (to a historical geographer or historian) it is a fundamental mistake in the graphic presentation of the game.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Someone who participated in the Alpha testing may be able to comment on this more effectively, but in all the shots I've seen from the game, they don't seem to have included any differentiation of architecture or structures among the factions. BUT that may be just because they are still testing mechanics and haven't elaborated further on the graphics.

Yeah, I was more or less focusing on the fact that most, if not all, other 4X historical games have something along the lines of unique units or unique infrastructure that only they can build, including Oldworld and Humankind. If this game doesn't do that it feels like a step backwards.

On the other hand, from the first glimpse some time ago, none of the 'cities' on their maps look like historical cities. Instead, they spread out throughout a region/district like some kind of Suburban ancient/classical/medieval fantasy that never existed IRL. That massive disconnect with historical reality makes me very suspicious about the game, because (to a historical geographer or historian) it is a fundamental mistake in the graphic presentation of the game.

Yeah, I could see how that could be annoying. Though it seems like early game most of the spreading out seems to revolve solely around farmland and different kind of camps, from what I can tell at least. It was mentioned above that buildings/improvements are divided at least into urban and rural so I would assume things like an academy or market would have to be built in the city while the farms, camps, and mines etc. would be the ones that spread out further.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Well this map model is better than tiles or hexes

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

To me it looks aesthetically pleasing. It reminds me of a citybuilder game, like City Skylines, meets Civ. My main concern is the lack of uniqueness between the different factions. As far as I'm aware, there aren't really that many differences between the different cultures as far as units or buildings? Even the traits and abilities make it to where there isn't that much uniqueness.

That's my biggest peeve with the game, no cultural variation. Rise of Nations spoilt us back in 2003

 

[Urlance Woolsbane]

Interesting to see it has Paradox-esque regions instead of tiles; I know that Soren Jonson has said that that's the direction he'd take Civ in if he had the opportunity, so I warrant he's pleased to see this. For my part, I'm pleased that it's using Diplomacy-esque orders, though the combat doesn't seem as interesting as it could be, given that. But, lest I seem too harsh, I should like to say that I am, at the very least, intrigued by the various mechanical innovations I've read of since my last comment. I've no idea if I'll wind up buying ARA, but it does at least seem to be doing something novel

 

[AntSou]

Correct, except it wasn't real time when I played the alphas. Take note of below image (which is publicly available in the publicly available Insiders Program, so I'm not violating anything) .....

View attachment 671034

Bottom right of screen, the big round button is the turn button. The icons above it are notifications/actions to be done before you can end turn. The icons to the left of the turn button are things coming up soon in the next few turns. The eye if I remember correctly, is survey a region (scout does this mission), the tree icon I think is harvest a resource not in your lands, and the banner icon is a claim I think. So you can claim a region and it becomes yours. However, it's not part of a city, until you attach it to a city. There's different rules for what can be build on claimed and city lands. Urban improvements only in cities for instance. A bit like Old World's urban and rural tiles.

Anyways, see in the middle Baghdad. It has a region around it. Inside that region is the city centre, plus some improvements build around that city centre. Each region is like a Civ district in that it can contain a few different improvements, but unlike Civ, it's not restricted by type of improvement (eg: culture district, only culture improvements). At the southern border of Baghdad's region you can see a ghosted army icon. Looks like maybe scouts? Anyways, green health bar, and the 3 if I remember right, means 3 strength.

That picture looks WAY better than the trailer. They should have just shown gameplay instead of footage with no UI elements.

Oh here you go, this image is from the logging camp improvement article they posted.
View attachment 671035

This is probably more clearer explaining how building on a region works. A region is split into building sites, as seen above, where you can place different improvements. Obviously, different terrain type will affect improvement yields (eg: forest is good for logging camps, open for farms, etc) and resources on the building site can also boost an improvement (metal on a mine for instance).

Not a fan of the transparent Eugen Systems like overlay. I find it uglish and unpleasant to look at, though I guess it's a minor thing.

 

[Dale]

Not a fan of the transparent Eugen Systems like overlay. I find it uglish and unpleasant to look at, though I guess it's a minor thing.

I wouldn't worry about UI at this point. It's early days, and most likely everything we see now, will be changed before release.

 

[pokiehl]

I wouldn't worry about UI at this point. It's early days, and most likely everything we see now, will be changed before release.

I’m not so sure about that. I remember not liking the Humankind UI during alpha and it has entirely persisted.

When they’re showing something off to a broad lay audience, I feel like the general aesthetic of the UI is locked in. Maybe it’ll get tweaked for functionality but I think those of us who think the UI is ugly may be out of luck.

 

[Dale]

I’m not so sure about that. I remember not liking the Humankind UI during alpha and it has entirely persisted.

When they’re showing something off to a broad lay audience, I feel like the general aesthetic of the UI is locked in. Maybe it’ll get tweaked for functionality but I think those of us who think the UI is ugly may be out of luck.

I think a major difference is the ARA team listened to their testers, and made big changes between Alpha 1 and 2 based on feedback. This gives me confidence they are acting on feedback. The Humankind team refused to listen to any feedback during their testing period.