Arabia

[Gazebo]

The real question is can AI use current UA effectively?

The AI knows what's up with regards to settling and sending trade routes for this UA. They won't cheese roads, as that's not really code-able, but the AI does prioritize trade routes that move over desert tiles AND tries to settle in places that are desert-heavy.

G

 

[Funak]

The AI knows what's up with regards to settling and sending trade routes for this UA. They won't cheese roads, as that's not really code-able, but the AI does prioritize trade routes that move over desert tiles AND tries to settle in places that are desert-heavy.

How about the TP-thing? As in the suggestion, not how the AI handles it, as it isn't in the game

 

[Furkhail]

The AI knows what's up with regards to settling and sending trade routes for this UA. They won't cheese roads, as that's not really code-able, but the AI does prioritize trade routes that move over desert tiles AND tries to settle in places that are desert-heavy.

G

For this, they should place roads over desert. Instead every time I encounter Arabia, its TR go through floodplains and those don't get the buff.

 

[Funak]

For this, they should place roads over desert. Instead every time I encounter Arabia, its TR go through floodplains and those don't get the buff.

Do you mean roads or trade routes? Because you don't really have much control over the traderoutes, and they tend to screw up.

 

[jacktannery]

Here are some screenshots of my roads for your amusement.

Fast Road to Medina

Spoiler :

Road to Nantes

Spoiler :

Road to Dublin

Spoiler :

Road to Fustat

Spoiler :

Road to Kufah

Spoiler :

 

[Strigvir]

It's pretty sandy map. Is it the only type of map where UA is viable?

 

[Furkhail]

Do you mean roads or trade routes? Because you don't really have much control over the traderoutes, and they tend to screw up.

Exactly my point.

 

[Furkhail]

nevermind.

 

[Finarvi]

Here are some screenshots of my roads for your amusement.

Road to Fustat wins.

Actualy it feels broken that player can get so much from this UA. And just look how weird it looks, nobody would build such roads in real life. I would change their UA name to...

Roller coasters of the Desert

 

[HiddenSage]

Nevermind, was reading WAY older posts and paying too little attention. Disregard

 

[Strec]

I know it is forbidden to speak reality but it's verify surprising that the Califate, which main goal is to extend the rules of Islam everywhere on Earth have no advantage on religion...

Perhaps adding +1 faith on TR and city connections (for example in replacement of culture) would help.

Else, it's so difficult to generate a desert with horses that tests have difficult and the only one game I tryed was an epic fail

 

[Gazebo]

I know it is forbidden to speak reality but it's verify surprising that the Califate, which main goal is to extend the rules of Islam everywhere on Earth have no advantage on religion...

Perhaps adding +1 faith on TR and city connections (for example in replacement of culture) would help.

Else, it's so difficult to generate a desert with horses that tests have difficult and the only one game I tryed was an epic fail

Epic fail?
G

 

[Funak]

I know it is forbidden to speak reality but it's verify surprising that the Califate, which main goal is to extend the rules of Islam everywhere on Earth have no advantage on religion...

You can't have everything.

 

[Strigvir]

It is painful to see the situation like this:

Spoiler :

Perhaps there should be a smaller yield bonus for a non-desert terrain too?

 

[Daya]

Currently playing arabia on communitas maps seems to make you reseed maps until you get a "playable" one.
What about some early terraforming-like ability on UB/UU/UI, turning non-desert tiles slowly and (semi-)randomly into desert.
It could work like progressivly like in this global warming mod (grassland->plains->desert).
This would make arabia way more consistent and vibrant, while sticking to its desert theme.

Then again it would not really stick to the real-world-lore, but i think gameplayenhancement should be the priority

Random balance notes:
If an arabian city gets captured by an enemy the process could slowly reverse.
The possibly UB/UU/UI could have a pretty high gold-maintenance reflecting the difficulty of such an endeavour.

 

[Strec]

Epic fail?
G

Classical. Need a lot of investments in time to construct a non-oriented war and as soon I have begun to be operational the 2 nearest civs declare war on me and erase me (I play in immortal mode).

CP/CBP is not directly concerned, it's standard with some civs

But I repeat, I don't want anything, I just say the for the Califate the goal is to diffuse Islam, trade is only one tool. Meca is the center of the universe. It's so important for them it's writen in the descriptin of the ruler when you start a game.

 

[Finarvi]

Currently playing arabia on communitas maps seems to make you reseed maps until you get a "playable" one.
What about some early terraforming-like ability on UB/UU/UI, turning non-desert tiles slowly and (semi-)randomly into desert.
It could work like progressivly like in this global warming mod (grassland->plains->desert).
This would make arabia way more consistent and vibrant, while sticking to its desert theme.

Then again it would not really stick to the real-world-lore, but i think gameplayenhancement should be the priority

Random balance notes:
If an arabian city gets captured by an enemy the process could slowly reverse.
The possibly UB/UU/UI could have a pretty high gold-maintenance reflecting the difficulty of such an endeavour.

Interesting but makes no sense. There could be a tweak that arabian UA upgrade plains yields to grassland and desert do plains. But still it's not that interesting. By the way plains aren't worse than grasslands.

 

[Gazebo]

Classical. Need a lot of investments in time to construct a non-oriented war and as soon I have begun to be operational the 2 nearest civs declare war on me and erase me (I play in immortal mode).

CP/CBP is not directly concerned, it's standard with some civs

But I repeat, I don't want anything, I just say the for the Califate the goal is to diffuse Islam, trade is only one tool. Meca is the center of the universe. It's so important for them it's writen in the descriptin of the ruler when you start a game.

There are a lot of faith-oriented civs already. The fact that Arabia usually starts in the desert (or near it) means that pantheons like Desert Folklore are available to them. Many of the existing civs were heavily religious (yet lack a religious UA in-game).

The fact that Mecca, today, is central to Islam has little to no bearing on what Arabia's UA should look like.

Also, sorry, but that terraforming idea is bonkers. Seems you've been playing too much Terra Mystica.

G

 

[Strec]

There are a lot of faith-oriented civs already. The fact that Arabia usually starts in the desert (or near it) means that pantheons like Desert Folklore are available to them.
G

I think I must change the way I start games. Generally I tried to have a solid capital before begining my expansion. Now to have quickly a pantheon and hope have a first prophet you must enlarge your area to gain more faith, I'll try that but in high levels of play, expanse before having the army to defend can be very risky

Concerning Desert Folklore I think it's not so competiting to get a religion than the classical beliefs based on resources, I explain.

Most of these beliefs give 2 faith for each unit of 1 sort of resource (3 if stone) so with one city you generally have 2 resources + 1 shrine so 5 faith par turn and with 2 cities 4 resources and 2 shrines so 10 faith per turn (maybe 8 if unlucky and have 3 resources for 2 cities). All that by acquiring only 1 tech.

Desert folklore gives 1 faith for any improved resource on a desert tile. So to be competitive you must have twice the number of resources in desert, so :

• If you are in the border of desert, don't forget resources out of it don't count and it the first tiles the AI will buy when growing.
• If you have for one city 4 resources (8 for 2 towns) in the desert and in the area of the town don't forget you need also the adequate tech to exploit them.

Al that to have the same result as the other resources based beliefs.

The quick expand of the UA don't compense that because there is rerely on resource touching an other.

So because each improvement give half faith and you need the time to acquire all the needed techs and twice the time to improve them the belief can't compete in the phase of getting a religion. Perhaps it will become the best after having a religion but I doubt because the desert is rarely very large.

So not only the Califate (I don't speak of Islam today but Islam at creatoin) is not avantaged but I'm near to say he is disavantaged, the great Satan strikes again!!!

 

[Gazebo]

The key problem with Arabia isn't really the UA, but rather the fickleness of the map generator. Other civs with map-specific UAs (like the Iroquois or Inca) can get away with it because their needed features/terrain/plots are nigh-universal. Arabia, not so much. This is definitely on my mind, so don't think I've given up on tweaking Arabia a bit more.

G