Archer Units

[Anaztazioch]

165 to 228 m... Thats betwean my house and supermarket. Still to small range especially Spain has 6 titles height.

Archers does have range, Longbowmans, they would be way too powerfull, well defanding and bombard, all armies in world would have longbowman as majority. Horsearcher... know that Japanese horse archers used same bows as longbowman did (daikyu) so they should have same range. Accuracy shouldnt be a much problem as their horses were very small. Crossbow no bombard... like they werent used as siege wepaons... bombard only on cities and forts. Musket well try and aim this on longer range than melee... Rifle they still had short range, even in WW I. Marine, how much damage you think a nade will do... a frag nade vs "duck and cover". And how far do you think they can throw ? Thats why there were mortars... Tank, tank is not altillery.

Units should differ from each other much more, only than true tactics can be made in the game (exept stack and rush).

 

[Exerior]

I think - or hope - you don't get my point.

I don't think as bombard as it is for city siege. So i call the new unit vs unit bombard "distant strike". It is much the same as air strike. Your units can attack from distance and fall back again, without getting in the lesser range of the enemy unit.


Example 1:

A hord of Archers run to an enemy, shoot some arrows and falling back. This is a distant strike attack from an archery unit.

If the enemy are normal melee units on open field they don't have a change to fire back.
If the enemy are other archers they can fire back.


Example 2:

A artillary unit distant strike has a range of 2 fields.

If they use the 1 space distance and attack a Marin this way, the Tank cannot fire back.
If they use only the half range (the next field to Marin), the Tank can fire back.


Backfire

The change to fire back is depends mostly on the terrain and the range. First we only use open field. Everything with a range over 100m will gain the distant strike ability with one title range or fast units (horsearcher).
To get a two title range, you need modern artillery units - you need the ability to fire out of sight.

To represent the diffrent range between an archer, longbowman and tank the units get a range value. If you distant strike a melee unit, the range value doesn't matter at all. The melee unit cannot fire back (maybe mounted units with special promotion).

If you have more then the double range, there will be no backfire.
If your range is higher, the backfire will be weak.
If your own range is shorter then the target's range, you will recieve the full backfire.
If your own range is much shorter then the target's range, your own attack is weaker.

Here is an example table for a longbowman distant strike a crossbow unit, an archer, a longbowman, marin and tank (both on open field):

Your Range | Target Range | Backfire
-----------+--------------+---------
200m       | 70m          | none
200m       | 140m         | weak: 50%
200m       | 200m         | nearly full: 80%
200m       | 300m         | full: 100%
200m       | 2000m        | full: 100%, attack: 50%

Here is an example table for a artillary unit. Distance is the title distance.

Your Range | Target Range   | Distance | Backfire
-----------+----------------+----------+----------
10 km      | 200 m (archer) | 2        | none
10 km      | 2000 m (tank)  | 2        | none
10 km      | 2000 m (tank)  | 1        | weak: 50%
10 km      | 10 km          | 1        | both full
10 km      | 10 km          | 2        | nearly full: 80%

A unit can only backfire one time between the turns. A unit can also backfire, if the unit has moved last turn.

Cover

The distant strike will be weaker, if the target is in forrest, city, town, hills, ... maybe we simply use the defence bonus of the unit.

The backfire will be weaker, if your units have cover.

Damage

Not as air strike, you can kill units. I suggest a efficents of distant strike around 30-40%. This means, two same strong units do 30-40% to each other with one distant strike.

Melee for Range units

Because range units will be much more powerfull then melee units, they need to get a big malus against melee units in melee fights. Archers simply can't do mach against cavalery in melee combat. I suggest a malus around -50% against melee units (depends on the unit type) will make it.

Range in normal fight

If you attack the classic way (move one unit onto another) with range units, the new Range value doesn't matter. Higher range is already represented by higher combat strength and the direct attack is the base for the combat strength.
And your units will fight until one unit die - simply the classic way. I don't want to make changes (beside balancing) here.

 

[Anaztazioch]

@ exerior

[1] Are you going to code that ?

[2] Are you going to ask Houman to do this ?

[3]

Example 1:

A hord of Archers run to an enemy, shoot some arrows and falling back. This is a distant strike attack from an archery unit.

If the enemy are normal melee units on open field they don't have a change to fire back.
If the enemy are other archers they can fire back.

Isnt that "withdraw chance" ?
But if you want archers to attack, hurt enemies not hurting them selves, wouldnt it make archers PERFECT ? Like siege weapons can attack, but defanding is suicide, they need cover. Now archers dont need it + they are mostly defancive.

[4]

Melee for Range units

Because range units will be much more powerfull then melee units, they need to get a big malus against melee units in melee fights. Archers simply can't do mach against cavalery in melee combat. I suggest a malus around -50% against melee units (depends on the unit type) will make it.

Go to the 1st page of this threat and read ALL discusion whith me Hian the Frog and Los Tirano. This will tell you i had close idea, but not good, as longbows will suck indefandoing cities vs melee and melee must 1st get close, than breach walls/get on top of houses where longbows camp, run up the hill, cross river. This will loose its relism.

I had idea for ranged bombardemnt in sea units (archers bombarding from galleys), but the distance is too long says Hian the Frog, and he was right.



And just to bring it up. Not only it is hell of work to make this happen, its hell of work to make AI use this, and its beyond the lifetime of satan to make this bug free... Even for Houman and Mexico.

 

[Exerior]

[1] Are you going to code that ?

I am studying computer sience and do programming stuff since 6 years. I will try to do it. But don't know, if i can spare enough time.

[2] Are you going to ask Houman to do this ?

If he like the idea, he can programm it. But i think Houman want code other things first. And the idea of yourself should be implementet by yourself. Otherwise the gameplay sucks often.

Isnt that "withdraw chance" ?
But if you want archers to attack, hurt enemies not hurting them selves, wouldnt it make archers PERFECT ? Like siege weapons can attack, but defanding is suicide, they need cover. Now archers dont need it + they are mostly defancive.

Not realy. A Unit withdraw, if the unit is going to lose otherwise.

It wouldn't make archers perfect. If you distant strike a melee unit aproaching your troops, you consume your action for the archer this turn. The next turn, the melee unit can attack your archer.
Because you do not kill the melee unit (with equal strength) with distant strike, the melee unit will get a chance to melee fight with your archers - if the archers are not covered.

Go to the 1st page of this threat and read ALL discusion whith me Hian the Frog and Los Tirano. This will tell you i had close idea, but not good, as longbows will suck indefandoing cities vs melee and melee must 1st get close, than breach walls/get on top of houses where longbows camp, run up the hill, cross river. This will loose its relism.

The distant strike would "strech" the fight over some titles of map. The archer got a "real" first strike, before they get under attack. I think this already simulate the "running to walls and get close" and so on.

And you can also use archers to kill the archer with distant strike.

I had idea for ranged bombardemnt in sea units (archers bombarding from galleys), but the distance is too long says Hian the Frog, and he was right.

Don't thought about this. Only late sea units should be able to bombard 2 fields - like artillary.

And just to bring it up. Not only it is hell of work to make this happen, its hell of work to make AI use this, and its beyond the lifetime of satan to make this bug free... Even for Houman and Mexico.

Bug free ... there is nothing like bug free in this world

The AI programmig will be my biggest problem - i think. But i hope to cushion it a little bit, because i don't make big changes on the current system, only add stuff. And the distant strike works nearly the same way as "air strike". I am sure, i can re-use big parts of code.

And i don't want others to code it. I am sure Mexico will help me with some things (e.g. i got the problem that air units got my new distant strike buttom ... not the longbowman).

First of all: Thx Anaztazioch

 

[Anaztazioch]

If he like the idea, he can programm it. But i think Houman want code other things first. And the idea of yourself should be implementet by yourself. Otherwise the gameplay sucks often.

This also mean will he implent it in WTR.

And read all i Frog and Los Tirano did. Just read it, might make you come up whith something new.

And you misunderstand in [4]. I wanted to make archers weaker vs melee, it was matter of disadvantage (-x%). But than he came up whith battle of Cracy.