Archer's 2nd promotion

[Pinstar]

If you build an archer (or longbow men, etc) who's task is purely to fortify in a city and never move from that spot. My first upgrade for them is always City defender 1. Often, for one reason or another (vassalage, theocracy, barbarian attack) they gain one more level. What do you think is the best to take, given the archer's task?

City Defender II
Drill 1?
Combat 1? (or II if aggressive)
Something else?

I'd just like every body's thoughts on this.

 

[LordTerror]

If you never leave the city with it (to attack warriors, scouts, or wounded units), City Defender II is probably the best.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

First strike is handy after the city defenders are done. Archers are generalists, so don't specialize them against unit types.

 

[Seven05]

Remember that when you upgrade the unit later you may loose the ability to add some promotions such as Drill. Infantry with first strikes can be impressive city defenders. Then again, machineguns with city defender promotions are nice too.

 

[Orca]

Delay second upgrade until you know what you need.

 

[Rad Chris]

Buried somewhere in the Combat Explained strategy article is says that first strike promotions are most useful when you only have a few other bonuses, and worth a lot less when you have loads (like in a city). So I tend to stay away from Drill, even though I dont understand the exact mechanics of how they work.

Early on I like to give Combat I so my otherwise fortified archers can attack Barb archers easily and stop them pillaging. Even a minor bonus against an equal unit gives greatly improved odds of victory, something like 65% as opposed to a 50/50

 

[Thalassicus]

For an archer that'll never attack and just sit in the city, I'd go with all City Garrisons.

The uses I've found for drill are pretty limited. The one time I use it on a regular basis is in an assault group of six or seven tanks, I'll give one of them drill for defending. There's several reasons:

- Infantry aren't an option since it slows the tanks down a *lot*.
- Combat doesn't work too well, since after an attacker damages the tank (regardless of odds), the second one will likely kill it.
- So drill is the best option I've found for this as first strikes prevent damage.

Other than that I've never had a situation where my units perform better with drill than combat...I've tried both on machine guns (for example) and neither works too well.

I wouldn't be too concerned with upgrading possibilities for archers. Upgrading is really expensive, I usually use it on assault units that have a lot of promotions. Defenders with two or three are usually easier to just replace, and often will have more experience the second time around (with the additional civic and building choices gained down the line).

 

[Cheeze]

I (almost) always go for drill. Since with archers I usually only defend OR fight barbs, and I sometimes want to move out to either defend on a hill or attack a barb to prevent pillaging etc. I just think that drill is always useful in that stage because I don't just want to sit in my city and let them pillage.

 

[Theodorick]

I always go for combat. I believe in having a half in half army consisting of both offensive and defensive units rolled into one. The combat promotion allows me to attack later on as well as defend, so it evens out. Also all the extra promotions that come after combat allows me to make my archer even more flexible as time goes on.

 

[Shadzy19]

Combat on archers?
That seems like a bad idea to me , archers arent really made as attackers that why their attack is lower then all other units .
If you need to attack barbs you havent really been paying attention , just put a archer on a hill / forest when a barb comes and he dies also with much better odds then 65% and u didnt waste a promotion.

For defense in the city id go with city defense 1+2 , to cover resources il go with drill 1+2 on normal terrain , and the hill 1+2 on hills offcourse .

Ive started to always take a archer with my attacking groups also and just upgrade them to meet the need to the terrain .

A few longbows that u happen to upgrade to drill 3/4 are awesome units ,speciale when upgraded into infantry.

Drill 1 and 2 are awfull but once they get to 3 they rock .

 

[Theodorick]

Combat on archers?
That seems like a bad idea to me , archers arent really made as attackers that why their attack is lower then all other units .
If you need to attack barbs you havent really been paying attention , just put a archer on a hill / forest when a barb comes and he dies also with much better odds then 65% and u didnt waste a promotion.

For defense in the city id go with city defense 1+2 , to cover resources il go with drill 1+2 on normal terrain , and the hill 1+2 on hills offcourse .

Ive started to always take a archer with my attacking groups also and just upgrade them to meet the need to the terrain .

A few longbows that u happen to upgrade to drill 3/4 are awesome units ,speciale when upgraded into infantry.

Drill 1 and 2 are awfull but once they get to 3 they rock .

You mean combat doesn't give any addition to their defense? Damn. I've been playing this game for 2 months now and I never noticed this.

 

[automator]

You mean combat doesn't give any addition to their defense?

Really? I always thought "+10% strength" meant attacking or defending strength.

 

[Shadzy19]

You mean combat doesn't give any addition to their defense? Damn. I've been playing this game for 2 months now and I never noticed this.

You must have misunderstood me , offcourse combat also counts on defense.
IMHO combat is just the worst upgrade for archers.

 

[Gangor]

You must have misunderstood me , offcourse combat also counts on defense.
IMHO combat is just the worst upgrade for archers.

Exception: combat I --> cover for attacking cities when you don't have any copper/iron/horses

 

[flytyer]

City defense for me...If that is what you really intend to use the unit for. I have never went for the "first strike" promotion. Seems like a wasted upgrade that you "might" get an advantage instead of a sure thing like combat or city defense, etc. Just my 2 cents.

 

[random11]

For most of my archers I tend to upgrade only city defances and then combat/first strike.
But on early ages I also take few archers with me to protect my killing stack, and for them I give bonus on hills or forests (depends on the terrain).

 

[Corbeau]

I buy Drill almost all the time for my early Archers, though for dedicated city defenders I go maximum City Defense. It's Drill Longbowmen that are scary though. They'll go through classical units like a knife through butter.

 

[Carewolf]

The first defender should have both city defense promotions. The second should have drill.

The reason is simple. Either you opponent attacks you with a few high powered units or lots of low powered (or both). You need as much defense strength as possible to defend against high powered units, but to defend against of low and same level units, you need drill to survive.

It is really satisfying, even when you lose to see a single longbowman to take 4 macemen down with him before losing to the 5th.