Archipelago map strategy?

[TaskForce]

Any advice on best leaders and strategy on an Archipelago map? I enjoy these map types, but can't seem to stumble on the correct strategy --I either expand too fast (or too broadly) and get stomped on by the AI, or I develop solidly but too passively in a compact island chain/area, only to see my score position deteriorate over time.

My main strategy has been develop fishing and sailing as the first techs, while I build an immediate settler and establish a second city on my home island, then an early galley, explore a bit with it and a scout (to scarf up villages abroad) while I build more settlers to send off to choice islands.

This seems to work well enough early on, but I tend to founder sometime after I enter the classical period.

I'm playing Prince, but have never won at this level. I'm not a noob, but I'm not very good at this either (whatever the map type), so any pointers you have are welcome.

 

[Ataxerxes]

No comprehensive strategy, but a couple of ideas.

Great Lighthouse is awesome on an Archipelago map, especially if you settle other small islands early. Those cities start to pay for themselves immediately. Collossus is very nice, but not quite up to GL standards.

Willem is one of the best Archipelago leaders. Financial with Dike and a naval UU that counters Privateers (you only see these with Better AI, however). Organized is good because city upkeep is a bigger problem on Archipelago. FDR is very good for early Great Lighthouse and Organized. Portuegese sound good, but I'm not sold on them. Best traits for Archipelago is probably Darius, however.

 

[TheMulattoMaker]

I don't really have any strategies, but I think as far as leaders go it's a good idea to try somebody that's Financial. Your BFCs will have a lot more coast and ocean tiles than normal and FIN really cranks up the commerce. (Especially if you build the Colossus, which probably doesn't have a better map than Archipelago.) Coast/Ocean is usually 2/1. Financial makes it 3/1, add the Colossus and it's 4/3- you'll probably be teching faster than anybody else.

As for civs, there's a few that do better on watery maps. Portugal would have an advantage becuase of Feitorias and Carracks, but not quite as big of an advantage as they have on Terra or Islands maps. On what is probably a production-scarce map, the Dutch would have a mid-game production boost from Dikes (there probably isn't a better map type for Dikes than Archipelago) and the East Indiaman helps with expansion. The Vikings have boats that move 50% faster than anybody else up until the Age of Sail, and Berserkers can attack straight from the ocean without penalty. Plus (if you don't play Unrestricted Leaders) Willem and Ragnar are both already Financial.

All of this is assumption/untested on my part. I started a Viking game on Archipelago/Tiny Islands once but got distracted by RL and never played it out.

EDIT: x-post. And yeah, what Ataxerxes said.

 

[Ghpstage]

Do you have any example saves you could post? Often the most damaging problems are things a player doesn't even consider!

For example rushing to Sailing first every time is going to be a mistake often, even on water maps you still should focus on improving your tiles first, and slavery may be the best method for your capital to produce galleys and settlers.
You may even have a few sites on your island worth settling before going overseas.

Scouts I don't recommend, Hunting will be a worthless even more often than on standard maps and they will likely slow your exploring galley down. Speaking of which did you ever consdier a workboat to explore? Its quite a lot cheaper afterall.
The main purposes of exploring on archipelago maps is to find nearby islands to settle, meeting AIs and uncovering coastal routes to their cities for trade rotues later.

Be willing to open borders with AIs early, the trade route commerce is a big boost to your economy and passing through their borders may let you meet more AIs or get circumnavigation.

 

[TaskForce]

Hi,

Thanks for all the input!

It took a bit of doing, but I hope I've attached a sample game file.

I'm on a Mac using Civ4. It's just a basic game. No expansions. No Vikings, that sort of thing.

This sample shows an effort to develop in a compact area while a galley tried to achieve circumnaviation (to no avail as it turned out).

Max

 

[Ghpstage]

The difficulties are caused by issues much more basic than the strategy you were trying to fit to the map.


Going for Fishing and Sailing first was a mistake, but then getting Mining, BW, IW, Agriculture and Pottery before Animal Husbandry (the tech you should have got first!) set you back at least 50 turns, probably more.

The first goal should be to get your capital to become productive, to do this you need a worker and techs to improve your tiles. Here your strongest tile was the cows, therefore Animal Husbandry was the logical choice, after that hils and chopping were important, so Mining and BW were best. By now your scout should have found out what new cities in the region needed to be improved, techs for this would probably have been Fishing (seafood), Mysticism (Monument for border pop) and Iron Working (jungle )
Obviously Sailing has quite high priority on archipelago maps, but you don't need it till you have found AI lands, are wanting to settle overseas or are needing Lighthouses.

For each new city you settle you should look to get it to be productive as quickly as possible, this means it needs a food source, the worker techs to improve its tiles and enough workers to do the jobs in a timely manner. 2 workers isn't close to being enough for 7 cities in a normal game, but when you have so much jungle your going to need even more than usual.
Usually the advice given is to have 1.5 workers for every city, for jungle even more, here I think if you had 10-12 workers it may had been enough.
Similarly seafood resources are of very high priority to a city settled near them, if it has it in the inner ring the city should build a workboat, if its in the outer ring and its the cities only food source then you need a monument then a workboat.


Finding production on archipelago maps can be difficult due to limited land, but you have had an excellent source since very early. Slavery.
Slaving allows you to basically convert food to hammers, and at a suprisingly efficient rate. Most of your cities could have benefitted greatly from whipping, some of them like New Sarai and Old Sarai were always going to struggle to build anything without it.

 

[TaskForce]

Wow. Thanks Ghpstage! I appreciate the effort you've made. I'll take your advice and see how that changes things. Thank you very much.

Max

 

[thecaesar]

a naval UU that counters Privateers (you only see these with Better AI, however).

Do you mean the mod? Better BUG AI?

Because if you do, I was playing the 1000 AD Scenario as Charlie, NOT the better BUG AI, and Spain was spawning off those cursed privateers like crazy, my city Rome was starving down to 8 population because I couldn't harvest any fish. GRRR!

 

[Shorlin]

Out of all the map scripts I find archipelago the easiest to win on. I think mainly because the AI are bad at them and there are some very strong strategies you can abuse.
A few points to add to the solid advice already given:

-Trade is very powerful. It is likely to be your biggest source of commerce during the game. This is because: A. All or most of the Civs will be connected via coast which gives you strong foreign trade before astronomy (unless you get screwed over with an isolated start). B. All your foreign trade will get the 100% multiplier for coming from a city 'on another continent'. C. The AI spam cities on every crappy little island they can find, so you are never short of foreign trade routes. D. Most if not all of your cities will be coastal, so with the above in mind, custom houses are very strong.
In order to make the most of all this send out a few work boats early in the game to find the other Civs, and make Writing a priority tech (for open borders). As has been said The Great Lighthouse is amazing on archipelago, and should be considered especially on prince level.

-Now for a powerful war strategy. If you want to win the game by force this is what I would suggest (must have oil).
Try to stay peaceful all the way until you have Flight and Industrialism. Keep your forces to a bare minimum, expand as much as you see fit, and focus on economic techs. The AI are very incompetent at warring on archipelago, even if you are declared on it should be easy to whip up a suitable defense.
Once you have Flight and Industrialism set research to 0% and produce destroyers/transports/carriers/marines/fighters en masse from every city. Once you have reached a critical mass (maybe 30 marines/18 fighters), assemble your fleet and position it just outside the borders of your first victim. Simply put even the best AIs will not be able to deal with this assault.
Here are a few points on the execution:
-When you capture a city, leave only the one capturing marine and fly in another marine via an airport with good defense promotions.
-If a captured city gets taken back, you can just go back and capture again. It doesn't matter you are still crippling the AI.
-Go straight for the AI's heartland, once you take out their core islands they should capitulate, so you don't have to worry about all the small cities scattered about.
-The navigation promotions for your transports and carriers will greatly increase the speed and efficiency of this war, as will getting the bonus for being the first Civ to circumvent the world.
-Make a super-medic with the first GG you get and send him to the fleet. A super-medic is especially powerful with this strategy because the fighters and marines will heal as if they are stationary even though the fleet is moving around the map.
-If you are running the Better AI mod, your enemy will likely try to deploy a huge counterattack against your homelands, something to bare in mind.

All in all this is a very quick and effective way to obliterate the AI, resulting in a quick domination or diplomacy-by-force victory.