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Are wonders worth it?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Exterrestrial, Aug 20, 2017.

  1. Esperr

    Esperr King

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    Deity player.

    Pretty much the hammers you spend on 4-6 archers will be worth more. That investment will get you back 10 times the hammers. Case in point, I couldn't even tell you what half the wonders do, and there are none I try to actively get. Forbidden palace is the only one of the top of my head that I always want, but im still not bending over backwards to get it, its probably the strongest one by far. I used to like Ruhr valley, but not so much after the nerf. There are some I will snag if I can, like Petra can be ok, and the A.I doesn't seem to build it hardly ever. The early ones aren't worth the hammers like others have said,and you won't get them anyway.

    That said the Hanging Gardens look pretty sick.
     
    HF22 likes this.
  2. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    persistent bonuses yes, completion bonuses no.
     
  3. gettingfat

    gettingfat Emperor

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    Great Zimbabwe, big Ben, Venetian arsenal, forbidden garden, mausoleum are all easy to build even at immortal/diety and definitely worth it. Apanda is good if your capital is highly productive and the AI usually are not too in favor. All ancient wonders except perhaps Pyramid are distractions from rushing military units in early game, and even Pyramid should be passed if the neighbors are close.

    Petra is purely situational. With enough hills and oasis it can give you the most productive city pumping out units every other turn. The problem is how to build it.
     
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    well you can get them but early production matters waaaay too much to bother with them apart from pyramids as it creates more production than it costs by a long shot
    Later wonders start appearing if you have overgrown a city and have nothing decent to do wit the production apart from build a wonder.

    I guess wonders are a sign you have not been efficient

    @gettingfat re Venetian, when have you needed a navy of more than a few battleships in single player? Just seems like an incredible overkill you do not need. By that time of the game your frigates have taken most things you wanted... if you wanted to
     
  5. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    Agreed on Venetian Arsenal; it's overkill and therefore useless. So long as you commit to building the ancient and classical era boats and then upgrade them you can have as many as you need and it won't slow you down one bit. If you don't need or want them right away then post Feudalism is a good time to slot Maritime Industries and finally get around to building the boats. Any decent city can get them done in like 4-5 turns and the card will boost overflow from the chops you'll be making. Once you unlock Professional Army quads and galleys become frigates and caravels for like 120-130 gold each. It's nothing to have 5 frigates the turn you complete Square Rigging.
     
  6. TomKQT

    TomKQT Prince

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    I don't use it to get MORE ships, but to get a "free" BETTER ship by combining the two procuded ships into one (corps). But yea, the wonder isn't so usefull because you don't need that many ships in this game. And it has a bit complicated conditions.
     
  7. mckinney156

    mckinney156 Chieftain

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    Agree with TomKQT I think some of you are missing the point of Venetian Arsenal. It's a free corps. As for other Wonders, the only one I actively go for is Colosseum in a domination game. The rest I find too difficult to build/not worth the effort. If nobody has build Pyramids by mid game I'll assume they can't and possibly go for that as well since it builds fast by then.

    Also agree Petra is the best trap in the game lol. The AI prioritizes it, its just a matter of whether they have desert or not. I've seen the AI stick Petra on the single desert tile that city owns. To make it worthwhile for you, you need a city with *good* desert tiles that can also grow enough to build it.
     
  8. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    I can have all the boats I would ever need to form all the fleets and armadas I could actually use long before I can complete Venetian Arsenal, and with Maritime Industriess I'd probably spend fewer cogs. If you build harbors there are great admirals which give free fleets and armadas. Just seems like a cog sink to me.
     
  9. mandamin

    mandamin Chieftain

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    I feel like the variety of opinions here says a lot of good things about the game.

    I like Colossus, and Petra if I find a good city spot for it early, and Colosseum if I've needed the entertainment complexes (I often don't). Terracotta Army is great for a domination victory. Eiffel Tower is great for a culture victory. I think I've built almost all the wonders now (Mac player, so I don't have the new patch yet :mad:) and in the specific context in which I built it, I've usually been glad I did. But yeah, the early game ones taking up all your production for 800 years or whatever can be very tough.

    One thing I like about Colossus is you're usually just building it on a plain coastal tile, which isn't a big loss, whereas you'll end up putting a lot of the other wonders on, say, a wooded hill tile, and that can just kill the city's productivity.
     
  10. gettingfat

    gettingfat Emperor

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    It's all situational.....The situation one needs Venetian is in a large map, the player focuses on land war in first 150 turns, then suddenly realizes there is a run away AI somewhere on the other continent. Yes, I fully agree that Venetian is an overkill, but it's a very good deal if you don't have much of a navy in the first few era, and want to quickly expand it. The cost of VA is roughly 6 frigates or 3 battleships after taking account of the production bonus, so at a minimum the player usually will get back the investment and more. Also we have to assume that the game will improve in future expansion/patch, and maybe by then the AI will have stronger navy and VA will be even more valuable.
     
  11. Midori

    Midori Chieftain

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    Most of the wonders are useful in the right circumstances. Except for Sydney Opera House. That thing's expensive and comes so late that there won't be any great musicians left for you after you spend 57 turns building it.

    If you're not playing China or Egypt, it's better to limit yourself to one in the early game when playing on Emperor, since not getting attacked is more of a priority.
     
  12. RohirrimElf

    RohirrimElf Emperor

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    When playing on immortal or up in difficulty. I tend to skip early wonders as expansion and other stuff mentioned before is a better way to spend produciton on.
    If i could build Stonehenge i would do it. (impossible to do). There are not a lot of early wonders out there i would focus on really.
    Once i get into the midieval (ish) era i pick up the better ones out there. In case i`m technologically ahead or just a powerhouse. I build a lot more wonders if i can get away with it and they are worth spending time on. If i`m in the mood for building stuff. (This is once i`m past the first 3/4 era`s)
     
  13. CountAccountant

    CountAccountant Warlord

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    Does the answer to the question change at lower difficulty levels?

    For example, a diety player is always going to invest heavily in military early on, both for survival and to grab nearby settlers.

    A player doing an optimization run on Prince, on the other hand, might outperform other strategies on Prince with wonders that would be suicidal to attempt on Diety?
     
  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    ...just maybe, I have seen once a proper navy twice my size, just remember the AI is useless at using it, never have I needed it but go for it, it's fun to churn out a zillion ships... for a few turns... then you get sick of pointlessly moving them and park them up.

    Of course, once you have got sick of higher level same you strategy, dropping to Emperor allows some of the more useful ones to be fun, like France with Potala palace. Dropping to prince you can even sculpt your kingdom with wonders if so desired.
     
  15. Tech Osen

    Tech Osen Emperor

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    Great Library is completely worthless, by the time you finished it you should pretty much be done with all the techs that would be boosted by it. Unless your culture is really miles ahead of your science, but that's usually the point your neighbors come knocking on your door.
     
    LedStone likes this.
  16. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    They are just so fun to build, and it does feel good when you succeed in building them. Though it fills you with rage if you don't (especially if you lose by 3 or less turns). I can't help but build them, even if it isn't the best strategy. I want my empire to be grand, and an empire can't be grand if they don't have world wonders. Of course there's always the option of conquering the wonders you want. But sometimes you can't if they are too far away.

    Wait, what? what nerf? I still build this, and I'm not aware of any nerf.

    My list:
    really really want:
    Big Ben
    Forbidden City
    Potala Palace
    Eiffel Tower
    Ruhr Valley
    Estadio (I can always get this if the game goes on long enough)
    Venetian Arsenal (I don't often build many ships early on, usually only later, I like to pre-build some frigates and switch to them after this completes)

    I will build these if I have a city available to do it:
    Great Zimbabwe
    Pyramids
    Colossus
    Alhambra (though I don't often build encampments early enough to get this)
    Petra
    Colosseum (lately the AI beats me to this nearly always, even on Prince)

    The rest I don't care for. I don't go for early wonders. I do my initial conquests first. If Pyramids hasn't been built by the time I conquer a few cities, then I'll go for it. Same thing with Colossus/GLH.
     
  17. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    I'm surprised to see two players state they like Colossus. It's 400 cogs for a trade route, a trader, and a few GPT. Hard to see how you get it done in time to pay those cogs back especially once you consider the opportunity costs of building it.
     
  18. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    You are probably right on opportunity costs. I mainly build it because I often can. It's one of the few early wonders I have a chance at building. Often my land cities are building military units or industrial complexes, I find sea cities are usually free to build something. Plus I like the sea wonders since it doesn't take up a valuable tile. I wish we had more sea wonders.
     
  19. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Emperor

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    Oracle: It's use(-25% faith purchase cost) is mainly at late game instead of early game, I don't think spending 290 early hammers(2 settlers?) plus a few districts just to get some early GPs is anything worthwhile.

    For early game wonder, henge can be very useful but cost you precious early science. If it is moved to sth like Bronze Working it'll become much more useful.

    Zimbabwe is situational if you have sth. like 10 bonus resources in 1 city. Usually we only build it for money for Science VC, only when we have a good city (so that it can finish the construction not too late) of >6 bonus resources. If I have Kumasi Suzerain I'd better ignore this wonder since actually the bonus is not that much cause you have to put all your trade routes together.(thus you may not be able to connect every route to a CS)

    Venetian arsenal? You need to build 14 Frigates(140H) to recover its cost. Typically you don't need that many frigates, especially for self-producing instead of upgrading, on a standard map.

    Rhur? It only +20% production instead of 30%. Also, even if it is +50% it does not worth its investment.

    Great lighthouse? I suggest building more navy than building this wonder, since +1 movement on sea is not that useful since we already have a lot of movements, and that lighthouse do not apply for embarked units. By the way, this one is good if you build at sth. like modern era.
     
  20. stinkubus

    stinkubus Emperor

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    When using Zimbabwe for cash to purchase great scientists is it necessary that your Zimbabwe city also builds the space port? I can't seem to get the trade routes shifted over in time if I end up using another city and my win is invariably slowed compared to just getting Big Ben.
     

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