Are wonders worth it?

[craney1987]

As to the original post, i found when making the jump to emperor that it was much more beneficial to focus on military in the early game than wonders.

Often times your military will capture the wonders you've forgone away.

 

[Olleus]

Pyramids, Colosseum, Forbidden Palace and Great Zimbabwe are the only wonders I normally consider getting. The others just dont seem to be worth the cost and the prioritisation needed. For what it's worth, some of them aren't worth the tile they're built on.

 

[Victoria]

The mausoleum can be very good though if you decide to push industry or seafaring. An extra charge from those engineers, especially the wonder building or space engineers makes the mausoleum pay for itself. If you play navy you'll be strong enough anyway, with the Mausoleum you can use a charge without losing the admiral and it just makes you OP. It's not that expensive, as Germany it's a must in my view.

 

[TomKQT]

Pyramids, Colosseum, Forbidden Palace and Great Zimbabwe are the only wonders I normally consider getting. The others just dont seem to be worth the cost and the prioritisation needed. For what it's worth, some of them aren't worth the tile they're built on.

I would add all wonders that add a card slot. The cards are very usefull and it is great to have as many as possible.

 

[Olleus]

Big Ben, sure. I very very rarely find myself wanting more military or diplo cards. The majority of the military cards of boosting unit production, it takes a very small amount of planning to only ever require one of those cards active. Logistics and the two that reduce maintenance are nice to have, but not must-haves. The others are either only useful for short periods of time (religious order, professional army) or simply worthless.

And the diplo ones? Meh.

 

[Victoria]

And the diplo ones? Meh.

Gunboat diplomacy and cold war are pretty handy... Spy card can be very useful when spooking, especially 25% time reduction... there are times I want about 3-4 green slots but more for a immersion game rather than a serious game.

 

[Olleus]

Maybe I just win or get bored of my games before I reach that point haha

 

[TomKQT]

Big Ben, sure. I very very rarely find myself wanting more military or diplo cards. The majority of the military cards of boosting unit production, it takes a very small amount of planning to only ever require one of those cards active. Logistics and the two that reduce maintenance are nice to have, but not must-haves. The others are either only useful for short periods of time (religious order, professional army) or simply worthless.

And the diplo ones? Meh.

Exactly, logistics and maintenance reducing cards are the two I like to have. And for this I need Alhambra (I hope I didn't confuse it, is this the wonder that adds a military slot?).
Diplomatic cards are good, too. I always have the one adds more influence points, plus some others based on situation. For example the +gold for every envoy or +everything for every suzerain can be very powerfull.

 

[Kyro]

As a general rule of thumb, most of the Wonder's aren't worth the risk or opportunity cost with regards to their potency in the game. The Cultural/Science ones are especially weak.

Actually powerful ones would be:

1. Pyramids (Extra build charge is like discounted builder price.)
2. Petra (Gold and Food on Desert Hills makes for a production powerhouse.)
3. Venetian Arsenal (Ensures Naval Domination if built.)
4. Great Zimbabwe (The single most potent source of gold in the game.)
5. Forbidden Palace (Extra Wildcard is awesome.)
6. Potala Palace (Diplomatic Policy Card.)
6. Ruhr Valley (Build in tandem with Petra production powerhouse.)
7. Big Ben. (Extra Econmic Policy Card is great.)
8. Cristo Redentor + Eiffel Tower. (Build in tandem and Sea Resorts will win you the Cultural Victory.)

Also, it depends on how you view Wonders. Are you looking for an immersive experience or are you just concerned with winning as fast as possible?

If it is the former than I must say a Civilization with few Wonders is far from being great, you would want as many of them as possible. If it is the latter than it depends on what victory you're going for and you will want to avoid most of them.

 

[Victoria]

It seems for the fast as possible approach in GOTM it seems to be

Pyramids - nice to have and gives a charge to any existing builders so saving 1 build on a builder is worth it. Not a must but nice.
Coliseum - +2 culture per city within 6 as well as increasing productivity through happiness it possibly more important than Pyramids
Great Zimbabwe - Great gold allows a lot of fast buying, and off continent it gets 35% extra with the right card
Big Ben - important for science to get enough gold, otherwise soso
Eiffel - useful for cultural, important on high levels
Cristo - useful for cultural

Extra card wonders I am not impressed with. They take time to build and the card you slot in them will unlikely give you the same speed benefit of pushing projects or extra troops. The only exception would be Germany with the Mausoleum makes them worth building.

 

[antimony]

I just tried the Pericles wonder-spamming strategy on Emperor. Apadana first, Pyramids and Oracle soon after, and later Petra and Colosseum. The finish time (T180) seemed normal for a small-ish empire, no conquest cultural victory (7 core cities, not counting seaside spam late-game). The envoys + other bonuses from the wonders seem to compensate for delaying expansion, but not much more. Late game, a classical wonder only provides the same tourism as one book. But at least, it's a viable victory path at Emperor and below, and gives the chance of less often used strategies to shine (you can get amazing yields from diplo cards).

 

[Archon_Wing]

How do you manage to build the pyramids so fast? Are you folks chopping it out?

 

[Victoria]

How do you manage to build the pyramids so fast? Are you folks chopping it out?

A wonder like Pyramids is contested quite often and so not chopping has higher risks of a fail.

 

[kamex]

A wonder like Pyramids is contested quite often and so not chopping has higher risks of a fail.

Depends how many civs have a suitable tile, so can vary a lot with map settings. Almost never have issues on Prince, but that's true of everything except occasionally Stonehenge

 

[Victoria]

True @kamex ... playing a prince game currently and just chopped it in anyway, I hate that feeling when it goes missing.

 

[UWHabs]

I've had some games where the pyramids are gone by turn 40 or 50, and others where I'm over 100 turns in and I realize it still hasn't been built yet. I think it really does come down to who's in the game, and whether they have tiles available.

 

[Victoria]

I think it really does come down to who's in the game, and whether they have tiles available.

Agreed, just like @kamex said... This is the classic wargamers choice.

Are the Pyramids so vital to your victory that failing to get them (and loosing that strategic production also) would be a disaster and you therefore must chop them in to be safest

Are the pyramids a nice to have and you have adequate production to afford the losses so build as normal and meh if they are gone

I tend to either build them because I need them or do not bother.

 

[Rosty K]

I always plan for Big Ben and Forbidden Palace from the start (which means I create the space for one and leave the space for another deliberately, also I start stockpiling gold once close to the discovery of Economics). All other wonders I build situationally (and some of them never, of course). If I aim for the Culture Victory, I'll attempt to rush Eiffel Tower (more resorts), and Christo (more powerful resorts); if I aim for a Religious Victory, then that one giving 2 free apostles won't hurt at all (it has a location requirement, so you have a chance to get it if founded a religion early enough - AIs don't seem to place their Holy Sites in the woods too often).

Strangely, I never aim for Great Zimbabwe (probably because I tend to spread my trade routes so every city benefits a little, also the cattle seems never in the right place )

 

[Victoria]

the cattle seems never in the right plac

??? If the cattle is within 3 tiles of the city, its in the right place.
Yes your CH looses +2 adjacency to a river but your will get +16 - +24 gold per turn from each trade route... there is just no comaparison