Are you a Smarter Orc? (Quizzes towards a better AI)

xanaqui42

King
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
780
The primary objective of the Smarter Orcs mod is to substantially improve the AI. Towards that end, I would like to ask certain focused questions on narrow topics, with the expectation that I can turn the feedback into better AI than the present AI.

Any hidden quizzes are ones where I've already started design of that section. Feel free to answer them, but I'm less likely to use the results.

Ground rules:
  1. If you don't like how a question is worded, feel free to answer part of the question, something related, or to skip the question.
  2. If you think I'm missing something important on the subject, feel free to mention it even if I don't ask.
  3. Detailed answers are primarily what I'm looking for, particularly for the reasons why you do something.
  4. Please don't argue if someone else's answers are "good" or "bad" on this thread (my questions, however, are fair game). Frankly, detail matters a lot more than if it's the optimal answer.
  5. Thank you for your time. I'm impressed by the quality and quantity of the feedback I've gotten so far.

Quiz 0 (Foundation):
  1. What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?
  2. Do you play multi-player?
  3. What game speed do you use?
  4. What map size do you use?
  5. What map type do you use?
  6. If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they?
  7. What version do you typically play?
  8. What Civilization(s) do you typically play?



Quiz 1:

Spoiler :
Quiz 1 (Resources):
References are below the questions.
  1. What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable?
  2. Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
  3. What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much?
  4. Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).
  5. What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them?
  6. Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
  7. Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
  8. What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
  9. What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
  10. What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
  11. What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
  12. What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
  13. For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
  14. Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?

Wiki reference.

Brief resource list:
Mana:
Air Mana, Body Mana, Chaos Mana, Death Mana, Dimensional Mana , Earth Mana , Enchantment Mana , Entropy Mana , Fire Mana , Law Mana , Life Mana , Mana , Mind Mana , Nature Mana , Spirit Mana , Water Mana
Local Food:
Banana, Clam, Corn , Cow , Crab , Deer , Fish , Pig , Rice, Sheep, Sugar, Toad, Whale, Wheat
Health:
Banana, Clam, Corn , Cow , Crab , Deer , Fish , Fruit of Yggdrasil , Pig , Rice , Sheep, Toad, Wheat
Military:
Copper , Deer, Gunpowder , Fire Mana, Gems, Horse , Incense, Iron, Ivory , Marble , Mithril, Nightmare , Pig, Reagents , Sheut Stone
Happiness:
Corn , Dye , Fruit of Yggdrasil , Fur , Gems ,Gold , Ivory , Pearls, Rice, Silk, Sugar, Wheat, Wine Whale
Local Production:
Copper , Gunpowder ,Horse ,Iron, Ivory , Marble , Mithril, Nightmare
Local Commerce:
Dye, Fur , Gems, Gold , Incense ,Pearls ,Reagents, Silk,Wine
Heal rate:
Body Mana
Mutation rate:
Chaos Mana
Happiness per:
Enchantment Mana
Negative Heal rate (enemy):
Entropy Mana
Reduction of Maintenance (both kinds):
Law Mana
Health per:
Life Mana
Research:
Mind Mana
Great People points:
Spirit Mana


Quiz 2:

Quiz 2 (Promotions):
References are below the questions.
  1. What are the most valuable Promotions? Why are they the most valuable?
  2. What are the least valuable Promotions? Why aren't they worth much?
  3. For promotions that you can gain by leveling, what are your favorites for each of the following categories? Are there exceptions to your preferred promotions?
    • Animal Units
    • Arcane Units
    • Archery Units
    • Beast Units
    • Disciple Units
    • Melee Units
    • Mounted Units
    • Naval Units
    • Recon Units
    • Siege Weapons
  4. What promotions will you use only in certain situations (and what are those situations)?
  5. For what promotions will you gain a spell just so you can use that promotion?
  6. For what promotions will you gain a unit just so you can use that promotion?
  7. Do you choose the units you upgrade based on their promotions? If so, what are your preferred units to upgrade based on promotions? Are there units you never upgrade based on their (presumably negative) promotions?
  8. Do you promote proportionally (i.e. Promote 1/2 your units to attack cities, and the other 1/2 to defend them, or something like that)? If so, what are the rules you use, and when do you use them?
  9. Do you promote your Heroes any differently than non-Hero units? If so, what Hero(s), and how do you promote them?
  10. Do you use methods to gain free (or cheap) XP for your units? If so, what are those methods?
  11. What methods do you use to grant your units free promotions? Which promotions do you do this with?
  12. Are there units that you'll destroy if you cannot easily remove a (negative) promotion? Do you use them differently if they have a (negative) promotion? In either case, note the (negative) promotion.
  13. What Crew promotions do you use, and in what circumstances?
  14. If you use the Weapon Type promotions, where do you produce Forges and Weaponsmiths to gain these promotions? Under what conditions will you not immediately upgrade the weapon type of a unit?

Wiki reference.

Brief Promotions list:

Magic Spheres:
Air I, II, III, Body I, II, III, Channeling I, II, III, Chaos I, II, III, Death I, II, III, Dimensional I, Earth I, II, III, Enchantment I, II, III, Entropy I, II, III, Fire I, II, III, Law I, II, III, Life I, II, III, Mind I, II, III, Nature I, II, III, Spirit I, II, III, Water I, II, III

Resistances/Vulnerabilities
Immune to Cold, Immune to Fire, Immune to Lightning, Magic Immune, Magic Resistance, Resist Cold, Resist Fire, Resist Lightning, Resist Poison, Vulnerable to Fire

Items
Orthus’s Axe, Pieces of Barnaxus

Races
Angel, Demon, Dragon, Dwarven, Elemental, Elven, Golem, Orcish, Undead

Religions
Cult of the Dragon, Fellowship of Leaves, Octopus Overlords, Runes of Kilmorph, The Ashen Veil, The Order

Bonus v. Unit types
Cover I, II, Demon Slaying I, Dragon Slaying, Dwarf Slaying, Elf Slaying, Formation I, II, Orc Slaying, Scourge, Shock I, II, Undead Slaying I, II

Naval Only
Buccaneers, Expanded Hull, Fair Winds, Longshoremen, Navigation I, II, Skeleton Crew

Weapon Types
Bronze Weapons, Iron Weapons, Mithril Weapons

Situational Combat Bonuses
Amphibious,Boarding, City Garrison I, II, III, City Raider I, II, III, Drill I, II, III, IV, Flanking I, II, III, Guerilla I, II, Homeland, Subdue Animal, Treetop Defense, Woodsman I, II

Combat Advantages
Barrage I, II, III, Blessed, Blitz, Burning Blood,Combat I, II, III, IV, Combat V, Commando, Dance of Blades, Empower I, II, III, IV, V, Enchanted Blade, Flaming Arrows, Heroic Defense I, II, Heroic Strength I, II, Morale, Nether Blade, Nightmare, Poisoned Blade, Shield of Faith, Spiritual Hammer, Stigmata, Stoneskin

Disadvantages
Casted, Charmed, Diseased, Fatigued, Mutated, Plagued, Poisoned, Summoned, Rooted, Rusted, Withered

Other/Mixed Promotions
Accuracy, Cannibalize, Command, Courage, Crazed, Defensive, Divine, Enraged, Evangelist, Fear, Forest Stealth, Free Promotion, Great Commander, Guardsman, Hasted, Heavy, Hero, Hidden Nationality, Horselord, Immortal, Immune to Disease, Invisible, Light, Lookout, Loyalty, March, Marksman, Medic I, II, III, Mobility I, II, Nomad, Patriarch, Pirate Cove, Plague Carrier, Priest, Prophecy Mark, Recruiter, Regeneration, Reversal of Fortune, Reaper, Sentry, II, III, Sheut Stone, Sorcery, Spell Extension I, II, Spellstaff, Spirit Guide, Summoning, Taskmaster, Trainer, Twincast, Unholy Taint, Valor, Vampirism, Water Walking, Werewolf
 

daladinn

Prince
Joined
Aug 23, 2006
Messages
435
What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?
-- diety
Do you play multi-player?
-- yes
What game speed do you use?
-- quick , however i do recognise the way the game changes on slower speeds and play on quick as a handicap actually.will explain later.
What map size do you use?
-- standard
What map type do you use?
-- fractal , because for some odd reason the FFH-fractal map i has jsut plain never seems to work.
If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they?
-- default , except in multi-player then i play with raging barbs and no tech trading
What version do you typically play?
-- typically the most recent, but thats only because you stopped supporting this FFH (yes your mania mod was such an improvement it was silly to stop).


this is where things are really going to get sketchy so lets keep in mind that my favorite civ is teh sheaim. however the AI for the sheiam is SOO totally bork its hard to recognize thats being dealt with if the AI is playing. so every one of these next questions will be regarding the sheiam.


What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable?
-- reagents. you simply cannot function in the mid to late game without it. if you go for AV you need it for ritualists. i fyou go for summoning you will need it for the eater of souls. this is soo important that if i can see reagents in my visual at teh beginning i will plan on going AV and drop a city on the reagent square (yes on the square, it makes it that much mroe secure). if i cannot see any reagents i will skip the religion entirely and head for summoning while planning to have lots of smaller cities (avg size 5-6 and kept VERY close together).cities will have ALOT of overlap.

Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
-- anything. plain and simple.if the AI can be weighted to sell its soul for reagents it should

What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much?
-- they are really only worth waht they can be trade for. so ifgetting mithril would get me reagents i would. however i would only have access to visible resourses and they are all junk (used for happy and healthy as needed only)

Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).
-- not really that important

What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them?
-- reagents. typically goign to war for them , but if needed will barter.

Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
-- read above about reagent placement and teching to AV or summoners

Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
-- constantly. if i have duplicates there are many cases where i would put a town or even a farm on a resource. this does tend to happen more with resourses taht require plantations though since a fully realized town is often better.

What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
-- this varies greatly but death seems to be the best overall. however late game it can float between chaos or fire.

[What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
-- see above

What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
-- prolly body .... summoners have no real use for body mana

What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
-- every point of mana is one more point of strength to a summon. however you do kind of need to specialize in one.

For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
-- pretty equal and rated high.

[Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?
-- not that i can see

things from an AI perspective that i can see needing adjustment for the sheiam fall into a few catagories.

1- promotions. adepts shoudl choose a mana type and keep it maxed out. the 2nd most important promotion is spell extension. then would come the combat line as it increases the damage of the summons.

2- combat. if an enemy is within range of the adept [(2 squares + extention bonus) * 3]. the adpet should be summoning a unit every single turn. this unit should then be headed to kill said enemy. the exception to this rule is that the nightmare should pause for 1 turn and stay in the ame square as the casting mage , then proceed on the 2nd and 3rd turns of its existance. another exception is the chaos marauder (depending on whether it reverts to barb status). if it reverts to barb after 3 turns then each and every turn it should continue to move away from the adept picking the a target that would place it as far as possible from any freindly units. basically every turn for 3 turns it gets farther away.

3- the higher the difficulty the more likely your goign to push for greatpeople. here it gets sticky because you can save a considerable amount of time. as your first tech is almsot always mysticism you can earn a GP to pop eithere KOTE or philosophy. while doing that its good to pick up agriculture and/or education. a part of you has to keep in mind when headed for summoning you need writing (which also give you a free sage). you also want KOtE ASAP to start pumping out adepts ( can never ahve to many adepts , especially if you have a mana node and decide on some death mana for skeles).your other option is headed for the veil. again , having a spare prophet here to either burn on a holy city or to burn for priesthood is HUGE.

thats all i can think of for now .... gl and have fun
 

Nikis-Knight

Deity
Joined
Dec 22, 2005
Messages
5,636
Location
Orange County, CA
Quiz 0
1-Monarch (Emperor occasionally, but I think I've slipped ;))
2-No
3-Normal
4-standard (though I'd prefer more if turn speeds were faster)
5-Pangea, natural shoreline. (II just don't like loading everyone onto boats and waiting 10 turns til they get to the enemy.)
6-Usually just +1 players, sometimes raging barbs though not typically.

Q2
1-It's nice to have a farm or fish bonus with a city radius for early growth, though I get most excited about finding incense, gold, gems, or calendar resources that aren't covered by jungle, for the good early income.
Of course copper is great, and I'd give most priority to settlers to land near copper--except that usually by the time it is revealed its already claimed.
For some civs, replace copper with reagents.


2-War. ;) Actually, other than metals and my religious resource, I usually will only trade an equivalent resource that I have extra of, I try to keep the science high. But I would trade a couple health for a happy or a couple of those for metal.
But if I am in an early war and I don't have copper, and a friendly has extra, they can probably name their price.
I don't trade for mana much, mostly because it costs an arm and a leg, but also because I can probably make do with any given 4 types, so I don't need to trade for more.

3-Health, because by the time I start getting significant unhealth, I have enough people. Health is plentiful and can be compensated for easier than happniess imo. Also Whales, I like, but come to late to really care about.
Also, marble doesn't seem too important anymore.

4-I'd trade for an extra non-strategic resource if I planned on liking the other player.

5-Depends on the civ, but copper I want, though if I don't see it sometimes I'll just jump to smelting to look for iron. If I don't have either of those I'll try trade or conquest if the resource is near a city or my borders. (If I need to take several cities, I probably won't get the resource in time and should aim for other units anyway.)

6-Initially, if I have 2 or more calendar resources I'll get that soon. usually I go for mining in the first few if there are hills, just for the production, but especially if there's gold--or I have warriors I want to upgrade. Hunting also, I usually only get before religion if there are resources for it nearby.

7-yes, but only if I don't have the tech yet. Occasionally I'll let a village stay on marble or a bananas if I don't need those and built already.
Oh, one other circumstance--if there is a dye, bananas, etc. next to a jungle but without jungle on it yet, and I don't have calendar, I will try to build a farm or cottage there ASAP to keep the jungle from spreading.
(Usually sanitation isn't a high priority for me, though it probably should be.)

8-I usually only get one or two magic improvement techs, probably elementalism since it has water, fire, and air.
Water is best if I have desert to improve, enchantment is a goal if I have highly promoted warriors, etc. Generally, though I just play random civ and use the hand I'm dealt, so I might not be the best to answer these.

11-Dimensional only has one spell, and since I stick to pangea, it isn't of that much importance.

12,13-I would almost always build a new resource before a second of the same. (But I've yet to play too much with affinity or secondary effects, so I don't know)
 

Nightwind

Chieftain
Joined
Jul 30, 2006
Messages
4
Location
Sydney
Quiz 0
1. Emporer (higher if using summoning-trait leader)
2. Yep
3. Quick/Normal
4. Huge/Large
5. Balanced
6. Aggressive AI always
7. Most recent one

Quiz 1:

1. I think it really depends on the Civ – mage civs want reagents, religion civs want incense, warrior civs want metals, economy civs want luxuries. However, I think mana is perhaps the most desired in general.

2. I tend not to trade resources with AI on higher difficulty because of the fact that the deals the AI come up with are pretty ridiculously skewed in their favour. While I've been able to put up with it for tech trading, resource trading tends to hurt more than it helps. Then again, if you need those reagents for just one turn to upgrade those mages, and then cancel the deal by declaring war, then I guess I'm willing to trade anything...

3. Simple supply and demand there... if there's a lot of that resource, it's just not worth as much (e.g. silk)

4. Any one particular surplus resource unless i can get more gold per turn for it

5. Again, it depends on the civ and the particular situation. I normally go to war for iron, gunpowder and mithril - unless I'm already bogged down in another war...

6. As Doviello, I would pretty much beeline to iron. Elohim would do the same for monks, etc. Resources do not really affect teching choices until the late game for reagents, incense, mithril and more mana. In the early game, I think even if you only had one plantation resource you would still tech calendar IMO.

7. I'll only build a farm on a cow tile if I haven't got any other tiles to build it on and I dont have the tech yet. Normally, I dont think it's a good idea.

8. Enchantment. Improves both economy via happy and military via enchant weapon, and flame arrow - free combat 1 or heroic strength anyone?

9.Mind is next for the research boost and the ability for charm to switch off the enemies' most powerful stuff. Inspiration is also great.

10. Tie between Water and Chaos. Spring is sometimes a must. Dance of Blades, Dispel Magic and Chaos Marauders are godly for war. Some people love death and fire, but I'm not that much of a fan, due to the fact that they dont really have extra benefits for a non-magic-heavy civ. I hate getting my units diseased so I steer away from contagion, skellies become obselete quickly, scorch is really only good for portable sand-lion bases, fireball is only good if you get a lot of mages.

11. Life, extra health is meh. Destroy undead and sanctify are extremely situational... enough said.

12. For a general non-magic-heavy civ, I prefer getting one of each just so I can get the opportunity to go into any path. So max would be one until I get one of each. For magic heavy civs, tops would be three.

13 - 14. Value definitely dimishes quickly, in my opinion. Depends on the civ, but I think another mana of the same is normally roughly 70% as effective as the first one. Additional mana don't give you the extra options and flexibility as the first one.

Additional Comments:

As has been already commented in the forum, the real problem with the computer AI is that it is magically challenged. It doesn't use summons enough, it hardly ever builds rings of warding, and it is ******ed in general when it comes to using magic.

The AI is very good at exploration, expansion, building, general warfare/raiding and, I believe, in managing its resources. It's the lack of magic sense that gives the human player the definite advantage. If, for example, I spam summoners... the computer AI should be smart enough to build rings of warding and spam assasins with mobility... rather than wage a war of attrition against my infinitely replenishable sand lions.

The AI would be close to perfect if it really understood the magic... but I guess that's a big 'if'... all the best for the mod!
 

phoulishwan

Warlord
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Messages
177
I'll bite, although I'm not the best or most experienced so some of my thoughts may not be the best ideas to base AI on :)

What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?
Prince (Sometimes Monarch)

Do you play multi-player?
No

What game speed do you use?
Marathon

What map size do you use?
Huge

What map type do you use?
Highlands

If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they?
Raging Barbs, Seas, Complete Kills, 13-15 AI's (leaving enough room to make sure Basium/Hyborum have a chance to enter the game, even if I don't plan on affecting their entry, which I usually don't.)

What version do you typically play?
I try to keep with latest version, but also alternate between vanilla FFH2, Svartalfar mod and RoMania so have some older versions around as well.

What are the most valuable resources?
Depends on how you define most valuable. For the early turn 1 resources I want wine(s) and/or gold in my fat cross for the easy commerce to speed up my research. For the rest of the game mana nodes are the most valuable, I want all of them ;p

Why are they the most valuable?
Without them a whole branch of teching is useless, of course everyone starts with 2-3 so you'll always be able to get some utility out of your adepts and beyond but getting the utility you want out of them means getting more or picking a civ that will give you that utility without getting any.

Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
I've never found an AI willing to trade away their mana ;( They usually only get surplus ones through Wonders and they never seem willing to trade them.

What are the least valuable resources?
I guess deer and fur. But I want those eventually too, because of the hunting lodge doubling their value ;p

Why aren't they worth much?
They usually come at the cost of a crappy city, especially in the case of furs. Deer can usually be found a little closer to more hospitable regions but they're only good for health unless you're playing elves. Although deer in a plains forest is one hell of a power tile for your capital to start with: 2:food: 2 :hammers:

Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).
I actually view trading as more beneficial to the AI's than to me, so they only get trades from me if it means I'm draining their gpt down to 0. And I'll renogotiate my trade(s) regularly to keep their gpt at 0, usually able to do so with just 1 health resource. When I need or want something, I look at who has a few of the different things and then start figuring out how to take them ;p I won't bother trading a health resource for a health resource unless I need health right then, but I'll trade a health resource for an extra happiness bonus. Generally I won't trade for strategic resources, because if I don't have one of them, my civ is already gearing up for war and I'll very rarely give an opponent a strategic resource unless I expect them to use it against an opponent or build a wonder for me to acquire...strategic resources aren't usually things I leave to the whims of AI diplomacy or fragile trade connections, which sometimes makes no sense whatsoever.

What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain?
Depends on my situation, I'll go after whatever will be of most benefit to my best cities, be it health or happiness. Of course strategic resources, I can't go a whole game without having them all AND denying them to my opponents.

What methods will you use to obtain them?
Whatever means necessary if it's an urgent need. Otherwise whatever means I have at my disposal.

Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
It seems in FFH, there's not much of a reason to avoid any of the techs that grant access to improvements as they also give other things, so I like to get them all eventually. But I usually get agriculture and animal husbandry asap, unless I have my dream start with wine(s) and gold, then I'll beeline to mining, if just gold, I'll go for mining after Agriculture/Animal Husbandry, but that's because the first tech, on a marathon game without any commerce bonus is over 70 turns away at 1 population, nevermind waiting for mining to come in.

Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
Not really, I don't think in marathon games it's possible to run into situations where it would be beneficial to do so in the early game. And further into the game you get every resource is potentially worth some gpt to drain your opponents economies with.

What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Nature, Water - Terraforming.
Law, Mind, Spirit (lesser extent earth for walls) - City improvements.

It's really tough to list just one. Though I suppose it's a toss up between Nature and Water as terraforming is more important to me than using magic to improve my cities. And my wars usually focus on more brutal means like Might and Metal :p Althugh I suppose I'd have to consider Nature Mana would be the most valuable Mana resource, Druids & Yvain are sick with a bunch of Nature nodes.

What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
See above.

What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
See above.

What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Hmmm. I guess this really depends on the game your playing, it's pretty situational although the same could be said for the best.

What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
For Nature mana, there is no max number when using Druids or Yvain as your end game. If I'm using the mana nodes for free xp I'll usually go for level 2 for free at most though.

For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
Equally important when using affinity units.

Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?
I'm sure there are break points that put some affinity units over the top for their tech period but I'm not that familiar with all the options. I guess this also differs on how you like to play your game. Builders and large empires could benefit far more from multiple nodes of Law, Spirit and Mind than other types. Where as Warmongers can make equal use of whatever best suits the units they feel like using to win.
 

Grey Fox

Master of Points
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Messages
8,726
Location
Sweden
What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?
Immortal, sometimes Emperor, and sometimes Monarch if I want an easy game.

Do you play multi-player?
Yep.

What game speed do you use?
Usually Quick. Recently I've moved up to Normal to prolong some ages for a bit more fun.

What map size do you use?
Standard usually. Sometimes Large, but these tend to get slowish and I usually don't finish them. Sometimes smaller than standard.

What map type do you use?
Atm Balanced. Used to play Pangaea, and tried Fractal, but Fractal can create continents, and I dislike continents. Balanced seems to always be a Pangaea but with more interesting terrain. (and possibly balanced starts?)

If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they?
Usually Raging Barbs, Aggressive AI, and a few more civs than the map size base.

What version do you typically play?
Always the latest. Atm 0.23b

What are the most valuable resources? and Why are they the most valuable?
I like Gold at the start. Not only for it's happiness bonus, but for it's commerce. Anything that boosts commerce easily and without too much tech research is good too. Wine can be good, especially in combination with Gold, since they require the same tech-path. And especially since farms were balanced a bit now.
Sugar can be nice if they are without jungle and if there isn't too much jungle nearby, and if the jungle doesn't have time to grow over it. They become a Floodplains tile without the penalty this way if you farm them. Or like a farmed grassland with some extra gold if you use the plantation.

Bronze can be important, if you want to do an early melee war.
Reagents if you want Ritualists and Archmages and whatever else require them.
Incense is a nice mid-game happiness resource with the right religions and is required by some priests as well.

Happiness resources are especially important in the early game, as getting a few of those give a big increase in what your few cities can do.

Iron can of course be important, if you go that path. Mithril too, but mithril is so late game that it loses importance that way.

Marble is really nice if you want to build many of the wonders that it speeds up, like the Great Library.

And with that said, I'm not sure which is the most valuable resource. It depends on the situation and civ.

Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
Two resources perhaps. Maybe 3 if I really want it. But I'm not sure in what situation I would do this, it all depends.

What are the least valuable resources? and Why aren't they worth much?
Most resources are important, so it depends on the situation. But among all the resources those that are the least valuable would be those you find in bad spots, have bad yield or have no strategic use. (like superfluous Health)

For example. Corn is better yield-wise than Wheat, cause corn appears on grassland, and wheat on plains. And with agriculture, the hammer is lost from the Wheat. Incense on a desert tile has not much yield value if you don't have enough food to work it. Pigs are nice for Food, cows and horses for Hammers.

Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).
One resource for another. Or just for something, to get some relation bonus. The fair trade relations can boost your standings quite a bit.

What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain?
I usually try to start near gold. Corn is nice for food. Copper is almost a must if you are gonna build axemen/swordsmen. But there is always alternatives. Reagents if I know I'm gonna need it. Any happiness resources I value highly, sometimes settling on some of them in jungles way before I get Sanitation just to get the happiness.

What methods will you use to obtain them?
Moving my starting settler, warfare, settling on them. Etc...

Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
Mining ASAP if I start near gold. Agriculture I usually do early anyways, but that is for farming in general not just for the resources. Animal Husbandry can usually wait unless I need horses or mounted units quickly. Calendar can be an early tech if I start near many plantation type resources without forest or jungles on them.
Bronze Working can be a high priority if I got many Silk in my starting area. Since they are almost as good as a Town.

Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
Yes, Towns on some resources. Sometimes farms on others. Like you mentioned. For example, a sugar on grassland. For plain food it's better to farm it, for gold its better to farm it under aristocracy. And you could also build a town on it for a tile similar to a floodplains town.

What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Its highly situational, but generally;
Fire, Death and Earth. Fireball mages rock, especially as Amurites. Death got contagion and good summons, as well as Lichdom. I usually want 2 additional fire nodes as the Amurites to massproduce wizards with Fire 2 when built. And as Sheaim I want as many death nodes as possible for strong Spectres.
Crush from earth is just probably the strongest spell in the game. And finding gems or gold or any metals just owns.


What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Water and Body.
Body for haste. You get places faster. And other nice spells.
Water for terraforming.

What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Spirit for GPP, mind for research (need many tho if you want to see any result), Enchantment for Happiness and some nice spells, especially as some races. Law for city maintenance.

What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Dimensional. Not really worth taking just for 1 spell. The civs that usually needs this has this already from palace (Sheaim). If you really need the Escape (maybe an MP game), it can be worth it.

What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
Depends. For fire its 3. Death 1 or as many as possible. Any other is situational. If I want to summon a unit with affiny, I try to max.
Water, 1. Body 1. Enchantment I could get many of if I want happiness and don't care much about magic. If I play Khazad I try to get only earth, sometimes one enchantment.

For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
Equally important when using affinity units.
For fire, having 2 and 3 means you saves 1 or 2 promotions which could be used to strengthen the fireball or increase your range.
For any other you wanna mass for effect they can be equally valued, or actually more valued the more you get.
For example, 1 mind mana might give an unnoticeable effect, since it's only +3% research and that would require the city to produce 34 Research for a +1 boost. But when you got 2, you only need 17 to notice an effect, with 3 only 12, etc.

Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?
Could be discussed. The enchantment's happiness is huge in the early game, more so on the harder difficulties. Life's health is not as huge, but can be on immortal or deity for example, if you settle without fresh water.
But I'm not sure what else to say on this question...
 

KingOfLands

Warlord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
227
Quiz 0 (Foundation):
What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?
- It's been Noble and Prince. Based on my last couple of games, I now know FFH well enough to handle Monarch.
Do you play multi-player?
- Occasionally on a LAN, but with someone worse than me, so it isn't helping my game any.
What game speed do you use?
- Standard or Quick. My computer's rather low on RAM; fewer turns helps.
What map size do you use?
- It varies from Small to Huge, tending towards smaller sizes.
What map type do you use?
- Great Plains or Continents preferentially; Pangaea, Lakes and Fractal more rarely.
If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they?
- Until .23, Raging Barbarians was normal - I've had some bad experiences with it since the update Aggressive AI on occasion.
What version do you typically play?
- I'm trying to keep up with the latest updates, so .23 at the moment.

Quiz 1 (Resources):

What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable?
- In terms of necessity: iron and incense, since they unlock or upgrade the majority of units and incense adds happiness.
As far as what I hope to have in a city's tiles: cows, gold, gems, and wine. Cows give you at least one must-work tile, and the other three are simple-to-get happiness upgrades worth a good deal of commerce.
Grains are valuable but they're common enough that I don't go out of my way to look for them.

Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
- If I can't get my hands on iron, incense or mithril I'm entirely willing to trade two or three other resources I have spares of, or possibly a luxury resource if I'm doing well on happiness.

What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much?
- Marble is far and away the least valuable resource, in my opinion. Its tile upgrade is unimpressive, it's not a luxury, and its production benefits are fairly specialized. I don't usually make a point of going after mana nodes since they don't improve the tiles they're in. Whales, deer, and fur tend to be too far out of the way of good tiles to be worth making a point of getting until you've settled everywhere else worthwhile.

Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).
- One-for one spare resources during the mid/late game.

What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them?
- I'll go out of my way for iron, incense, and luxury resources (even whales!) that I don't have yet. I am entirely willing to build a city that will be otherwise useless in order to stake a claim to one of those, If I think I can get them by conquest, I'd rather do it that way up until the limit my economy will bear - I'm uncomfortable not being able to run at about 70% research.

Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
- I'm much more eager to research disciple and adept upgrade techs if I have incense or reagents.

Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
- I don't do this often, but now and then I will build a cottage on a food improvement if I already have another instance of it hooked up. On the rare occasion a non-mine resource appears on a hill, I might put a mine there if I feel I really need the production.

What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
- Water. I like having access to desert removal.
What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
- Fire. Fireball, Meteor, and its summons are top-notch.
What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
- Earth. The percentage chance increase for mining discoveries adds up even over the course of a short game, in my experience, and Crush is a really excellent spell. It's particularly useful with Dwarven Druids, too.
What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
- Dimensional. Escape is a convenience you shouldn't need and it doesn't do much of anything else.
What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
- 3.
For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
- Earth is the only one of the top 3 I'd want more than one of, and I prefer to access Fire by choice of civilization and Water by building the Necronomicon.

Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?
- Earth, Mind, and Death mana are the only mana resources I can imagine wanting more than one of in the first place. Other than Spirit (which is too small an increase to be tremendously important), the others with added effects have spells that will tend to address any needs you might have that having more than one node would help with.

I should add that I'm slightly biased against Law mana because the Order is my least-favorite religion in FFH, so your mileage in that particular area may vary.
 

jwin

Warlord
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
254
Location
NY
What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player? Emperor, diety with calabin
Do you play multi-player?No
What game speed do you use? Normal
What map size do you use? Large
What map type do you use? Pangea, lakes, fractal
If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they? Perm aliance
What version do you typically play? most recent one out

What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable?
1) whatever religion I plan on going for, their priests requirment. At least until I reach the point where I am ready for war, I can make do without reagents and just use tier 2 magicians.
2) Enough happiness resources to build fair sized cities.


Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
-If needed, I will give up a less valuable mana source to get whats needed to make priests(especially water, once you have 1-2 adepts with water, it isn't important anymore.)

What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much?
-Once you have 3-4 happiness and 2-3 health resources, the rest are just padding and aren't worth going out of your way for.

Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).
-Only extras of what I have, and usually only food resources because they are less beneficial to the AI

What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them?
-Priest resources, reagents. Usually war, it creates the most stable source, although if you have a very close ally, I'll rely on trade.

Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
-Early on, I'll take time to get a tech just to make hunting camps, wineries, or plantations if they are the only happy resources.

Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
-I usually won't make more than 2 of a plantation resource, because other things are more valuable.

What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
-Death. First, skeletons with a brand new adept. Very early on, this makes adepts extremely powerful, and late they are still useful for having as many as you can afford during an attack. Also, the 2nd and 3rd tier spells are good in both summoning and sorcery.

What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
-Fire gets alot of press for fireball and meteor, but if your attack force needs to bring down the city defenses significantly, you need to re-examine your attack strategy. Death is a better tier two city attack, and maelstrom is better for weakening defenders. So, even though it only has one good spell, I usually try to get air early so my archmages get maelstrom.


What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
-Life used to be when Hyborem spawned more. Now probably law for unquestioning obedience if you plan on the game being long, otherwise chaos is nice. Godd summons to complement wraiths and specters.


What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
-Earth maybe? I dn't generally use rust, their are quicker ways to kill things. Crush is less useful than maelstrom.

What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
-All of them?

For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
-You definately want two death, to make all adepts get skeleton and raise your limit. If you are going summoner, then after you get whatever ones you need, dump them all into death.

Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?
-I don't think you need any other mana doubled on unless you are going melee or archer heavy, then I suppose 2 body could be OK for free haste. I often get extra water for a node then either making or conquering the OO city. Extra water is immediately either traded or given away to boost relations.
 

arcaner

Chieftain
Joined
Jan 30, 2007
Messages
71
Quiz 0 (Foundation):

1. What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?
Usually Noble, but have dropped it down to warlord until I get used to the changes in .23

2. Do you play multi-player?
no

3. What game speed do you use?
Epic

4. What map size do you use?
Large

5. What map type do you use?
Shuffle usually, currently Continents

7. What version do you typically play?
Currently playing .23b

Quiz 1 (Resources):
References are below the questions.

1. What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable?
Wine, gold, copper. Early :) for extra growth. Early +1:strength:

2. Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
2 grain resources.

3. What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much?
Marble. lack of effect. cow pig. Health is not that important.

4. Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).
Sheep, or deer.

5. What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them?
Iron, incense (usually) try to grab w/ settlers. Will go to war.

6. Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
My Tier 2 research order is completely dependent on which resources I need.

7. Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
I will cottage spam on a resource tile if I have not researched the technology yet.

8. What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Water, Spring and tsunami. There really needs to be a way to reverse the effects of tsunami.

9. What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Fire, Fireballs do collateral damage, pound city walls, and can turn jungle tiles into forests.

10. What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Spirit. Shrine of Sharona wonder.

11. What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Dimension. Lack of associated abilities.

12. What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
2

13. For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
Each additional mana is half as valuable as the one before it.

14. Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?
No. Personal play style call. Rarely get the T3 spell casters.
 

Sarkyn

Warlord
Joined
Oct 17, 2004
Messages
258
Location
Seytroux, France
Quiz 0 (Foundation):
What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?
Monarch, sometimes Noble (such as when learning a new race)

Do you play multi-player?
Cooperative - yes, Competitive - no

What game speed do you use?
Normal

What map size do you use?
Standard (larger maps take too long to finish, and I usually get to the point where I know I have already won and end up abandoning them).

What map type do you use?
I like variety! Pangea, Continents, Archipelago and Highlands are all fun

If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they?
I mod the XML to give 2x as many mana nodes, and I turn off Altar and Time victories, generally

What version do you typically play?
.23b, I tend to keep up.

What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable?
As others have said, it's entirely dependant on race, with some generalisation that could be drawn. For example - in general, I want the technology/unit enabling resources in ALL games and I consider them probably the MOST important until I have 1.

So Reagents, Metals, Incense, plus the religion specific unit resources (gems for Stonewardens, etc). Technology or Unit enablers definitely the highest priority, usually.

Whichever is that race's particular speciality is obviously most valuable of all.

After that, I tend to try to gather 1 of each, aiming first for the ones with an early-game "double up" effect. So - Corn, Wheat and Rice - which are healthy resources but with Brewery are also happiness resources. I tend to favour a civ-wide bonus over placing a city for it's productivity. So I'll plant a city on an unfavourable position to get a resource that my whole civ benefits from, rather than planting it in a position that would give it more food or coin.

Then comes the race-specific rushes.

As "Big City" races (Calabim, Kurio..) - health is doubly important as I can manage happiness other ways.

As Grigori - happiness resources are twice the value due to the lack of religion.

As Summoner races - metals aren't as important, mana doubly so (shooting for a single-type affinity is a very valid tactic for summoners).


Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
Gold-per-turn, or anything I have 2 of. Other than that, I'll take it by force or culture instead.


What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much?
Fur/Deer are always on hard to get tiles. I always want them (As they double-up early on), but it's always such a compromise. These are the ones I'm most likely to buy by trade instead of planting a city to get.

Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).
Anything resource have spare of.

What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them?
The tech/unit enabler resources (metals, reagents, etc). I generally either culture-grab them on my borders or if necessary, declare war to take them. Without them, you are missing a prong from your arsenal and won't win anyway.

Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
Early game, I don't take a improvement-making tech unless I want to make the improvement. I don't go down the melee line without metals to back it up, usually, research is better spent elsewhere instead. I don't bother with the animal-handling/scouting line unless there are animals left to capture.

Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
Very rarely. I would have rather have a 3rd or 4th of that resource and give it for free to an ally for "Relations" bonuses, than min-max for a single extra bread or coin.

What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Death or Fire. Death, ultimately, for Lichs though I am happy to wait and get this quite late in my game. Fire for the obvious reasons.

What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Good buff promotions and city support manas. Several combine both of those two in a single school. Spirit, law, enchantment, earth, body.

What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Single-wonder mana resources and situational things. Things like Life and nature.

What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
I don't think I've ever built Mind. I usually find I can get the science in other ways instead. Maybe if I was playing a resolute builder going for a flat out science/altar/time victory, then mind would be great, but that's not my playstyle.

What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
If I'm shooting for an affinity, there is no maximum.

For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
If you're doing the affinity thing (most common with a summoner race), getting those bonus resources to boost the damage of summons you are calling in EVERY TURN for THREE turns is worth way more than a little versatility..

Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?
Not sure I understand this question. Pass.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
344
Quiz 0 (Foundation):

What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?

Prince.

Do you play multi-player?

Not yet.

What game speed do you use?

Normal.

What map size do you use?

Small.

What map type do you use?

Great_Plains or Oasis.

If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they?

Raging Barbs.

What version do you typically play?

0.22, 0.23 (Fire?)

Quiz 1 (Resources):
References are below the questions.

What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable?
Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.


It's situational to the civ, but Reagents, Iron and Copper are all very important. If I want good Mages (or AV priests), I need Reagents. Copper helps a lot early on for that weapon boost, especially for early war waging. Iron does a similar job, but more so in the midgame.

What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much?
Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).


Sheut Stone is the least valuable, since it basically does nothing as of yet. Marble is pretty crappy to, since it only boosts a handful of wonders (and makes for a decent Fat Cross resource).

[Edit: grey Fox informed me of what Sheut Stone does, so make Marble by least favourite]

What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them?

Reagents is important for the aforementioned Magic. If it was within "arms reach" in someone elses cultural borders I'd wage a war for it, but if it's deep in enemy territory I'd go for the diplomatic route. I wouldn't go over board in diplomacy but I'd make an effort to "kiss ass" the AI who has them.

Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?

I wouldn't bother with the horse line if I had no horses. If I have Copper, I'll go for Bronze Working quite quickly for the forges. If there's some Pasture animals nearby, I'll try and pick up Animal Husbandary after all the "ASAP" techs are out of the way.

Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?

If I have major excess of a resource. Cows are ntoable on Great_Plains, since they come in uncountable numbers and are rarely worth anything on the barter table. Make one or two pastures for the health and the rest will be improved how I see fit.

What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?

Fire. The Fire Sorcery magics are incredibly valuable, there's been few times I've sieged a city and not thought to myself "I wish I had meteors".

What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?

Death, frees up three Archmage sltos with Lichs. The other stuff it comes with aint half bad either.

What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?

This is rather situational. Personally, I quite like Enchantment for the buffs (and repair with Dwarven).

What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?

Dimensional for me. I don't think I've ever used it.

What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?

Assuming I'm limited, I'd only bother with one, maybe two if I have a spare mana slot. Of course, if I had infintie mana nodes I wouldn't say no to excess.

For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?


Confusing question with too many variables to be answered satisfactorily, I think I'll leave this as a blank.
 

Grey Fox

Master of Points
Joined
Dec 19, 2001
Messages
8,726
Location
Sweden
Sheut Stone is the least valuable, since it basically does nothing as of yet. Marble is pretty crappy to, since it only boosts a handful of wonders (and makes for a decent Fat Cross resource).

Sheut stones does have a use. It gives all units produced +1 Unholy str and some defense in hell terrain.

Sheut Stones + Nightmares can create some wicked mounted units.
 

CXDamian

sub-Chieftain
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
110
Location
KS
Quiz 0 (Foundation):
  1. What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?
    generally Monarch, but drop to Warlord to test
  2. Do you play multi-player?
    no, afraid that I'll have to bail on someone
  3. What game speed do you use?
    normal
  4. What map size do you use?
    from tiny to large
  5. What map type do you use?
    60% Fractal
  6. If you use any non-default game settings what are they?
    raging barbarians, aggressive AI, 50% no tech trading
  7. What version do you typically play?
    always most recent. About half the time I'm playing a form of maniac or blaze's modmod. Relative to the answers here: 0.23b
  8. What Civilization(s) do you typically play?
    Khazad, Amurites, Sheim, Hippus, Balseraphs. Hardly ever: Lanun, Luchuirp, Ljosalfar

Quiz 1 (Resources):
  1. What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable?
    reagents/incense for priests+; metals(iron, copper, then mithril) for production and unit bonuses.
  2. Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
    Happiness/Health bonus resources. I wouldn't trade anywhere near a fair value in actual goods (ie gold per turn) unless there was something along the lines of a contract or some other way to secure the investment, or the AI was more predictable with canceling.
  3. What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much?
    Have to go with horses. These are great units, but if they are not there from the start I will probably not even go down that tech line past Mobility 1. Too risky to trade for an essential piece in a tech line.
  4. Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything).
    only for positive relations: food resources I have more then 1 of
  5. What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them?
    metals. Culture spam(prophet/disciples), if not successful/feasible I'll prioritize destroying a civ that has it first.
  6. Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
    horses/mounted line as above. If marble is available early I'll rush for calender/tomb.
  7. Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
    only for a fort, and only then near hostile borders outside of a fat cross, but only for resources not in excess.
  8. What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
    1 of air, earth, or fire(priority usually earth) for weakening units.
  9. What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
    water for transforming desert into plains. Nature is better in terms of power there, but not for the same investment where water can lead to tsunami/kraken.
  10. What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
    spirit. culture, happiness, shrine of sirona, gpp bonus.
  11. What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
    which-ever of air/earth/fire not already in possession of. Depends on the situation otherwise. One continent, dimensional. Entropy if not AV.
  12. What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
    -of a single mana: 3, but I'll usually stop at 2 in order to have other types.
    -of mana resources: Any other resource I don't care if I only have 1, for mana I want them all. But as far as a number for limiting, 4 nodes max(typically 7 total with capital).
  13. For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?
    second is a mild priority, real happy with 3 but won't usually push for it. 4 or more I typically don't care.
  14. Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?
    spirit, law, enchantment, mind: at least 1 will take a priority on x2 over the primary getting an increase due to their attributes(research increase etc). A small bump in offense power takes a back seat to the power gains from one of these.

Edit: as to the AI and mana nodes, each race(at least most of them) may need its own scheme with options for religions.
 
Joined
Apr 26, 2004
Messages
344
Sheut stones does have a use. It gives all units produced +1 Unholy str and some defense in hell terrain.

Sheut Stones + Nightmares can create some wicked mounted units.
Oh, I wasn't aware of that. There was never any Civilopedia info on it so I assumed it was an unfinished resource, that changes my opinion on it then.
 

R0GERSHRUBBER

Shrubber
Joined
Oct 31, 2005
Messages
213
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
Quiz 0 (Foundation):
  1. What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player? Monarch/Prince, depending on whether I'm testing a new idea/mechanic/etc.
  2. Do you play multi-player? I will in the near future
  3. What game speed do you use? Quick or Normal: I just don't have the time for longer
  4. What map size do you use? Standard or larger on my desktop, Small on my lappy. I prefer lots of interaction
  5. What map type do you use? Pangaea, or any solid landmass (Oasis, Highlands, etc.)
  6. If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they? Sometimes Raging Barbarians, sometimes I turn off some victory types
  7. What version do you typically play? The latest

Quiz 1 (Resources):
References are below the questions.
  1. What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable? Iron, Copper, Incense: Iron and Copper affect so many important units, it is hard to be militarily credible without them. Mithril comes so late that it doesn't have nearly their importance. Incense is more valuable than Reagents because it is necessary for Priests, which come much earlier than Archmages/Summoners; you have far more time to adjust to an absence of Reagents than Incense, unless you're playing AV, and Incense can be good for gobs of happiness with the various temples. In any case, I prefer Priests/Inquisitors to Archmages/Summoners, the latter being too great a liability with Shadows about. I get tired to micromanaging workers/hawks to protect them. Bleh.
  2. Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources. This is circumstancial, but I would likely be willing to offer quite a lot if I could cancel the deal in ten turns.
  3. What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much? Marble is so obviously bad. Bananas are a distant second only because they don't have an associated building and are usually buried deep in jungles.
  4. Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything). I would only trade for Marble if I were building a wonder that could benefit from it.
  5. What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them? Any new strategic or happiness resources will always show up on my radar
  6. Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones? Yes. If I'm not rushing a religion, my early research will be influenced by the resources nearby: if I see Wine and Gold nearby, I will probably end up with early Axemen, for example.
  7. Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions? With the old Agriculture civic, on occasion. Now, I think being able to trade a couple resources for a decade to garner a few points of favor outweighs the benefit of the commerce.
  8. What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why? Fire is useful in the mid and late game. Fireball and Meteor can bombard in addition to attacking. Sand Lions and Fire Elementals are solid summons.
  9. What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why? I will often pick up Water, especially if I have oasises and resources on desert tiles, or if I'm concerned about my forests burning down.
  10. What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why? At this point it's circumstancial, but they're are valuable enough that I don't mind having them.
  11. What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why? Entropy: the spells are unimpressive, the effect isn't all that useful, and it may come with a diplomatic penalty.
  12. What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want? As many as I can get? I don't hunt for them unless I'm pursuing a Tower victory, but I put them to use when I do find them. Otherwise I'm satisfied with 4-5
  13. For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one? They are on reasonably comparable terms. If I have to make use of limited mana, I could go without Fire if I had Air, Death, and/or Earth. It can be hard to deal with fires without Water, hell/razing cities without Life, and the Four Horsemen without Spirit, though.
  14. Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why? This is hard to say; I rarely double up, but I haven't really played a summoning civ since this change was implemented.
 

Dark Russell

Octagonecologyst
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
344
Location
Yuggoth
Quiz 0 (Foundation):
Difficulty? = Monarch
Multi-player? = No
Speed? = Marathon
Map size? = Huge
Map type? = Fractal, Low sea level
Non-default game settings? = Raging Barbs, Complete Kills
Version? = .22h
Civilization(s)? = Clan of Embers, Amurites, Khazad

Quiz 1 (Resources):
References are below the questions.
What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable? :
Any metals to improve my troops and give hammer production and Gold to give early science boost.

Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources. :
Just about anything for metals.

What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much? :
Marble as it isn't needed for anything I am inclined to build.

Give an example of what you'd be willing to trade for the least valuable resources (if anything). :
Whatever I have extras of in order to open a trade relationship.

What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them? :
Usually copper, gold, mana and horses in the early game by expansion and the other metals and regents by force or culture, whichever is easiest.

Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones? :
I like to go for Runes so I head down the Mining > Bronze Working line but will change my course to Knoledge of the Either if I have no access to copper as Iron Working is too expensive to push on to.

Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions? :
I'll build farms on grassland cows if I don't have animal handling and cottages on ivory (or other similar bonus resources) if I don't have hunting, etc.

What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why? :
I find fire is as you can eliminate many enemies with fireballs before even getting archmages (on my settings).

What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why? :
I am going to say water as I like to settle near floodplains but that means plenty of desert tiles (and unhealthy cities). I can terraform the surrounding desert to plains an give my science cities that extra needed boost both in production and health.

What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why? :
It depends on how I am feeling (and how the game is going) on what I choose next.

What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why? :
I tend to use Entropy the least, mostly because of its negative diplomacy modifier.

What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want? :
2 is nice but not at the cost of losing out on other mana (water).

For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one? :
Second is fairly valuable but others I will accept only by capture.

Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why? :
I haven't explored the power of spells of lvl2 and 3 beyond that of Fire as Fire always seems to get the job done. Plus I like to hadicap myself when the AI is performing poorly to keep the challenge relatively "fair".
 

Uberness

Warlord
Joined
Aug 15, 2006
Messages
184
Quiz 0 (Foundation):
What difficulty level do you typically play on in single-player?
--Monarch or immortal
Do you play multi-player?
--All the time
What game speed do you use?
--Quick
What map size do you use?
-Standard or large
What map type do you use?
-Pangaea or inland sea
If you use any non-default game settings (such as no barbarians/raging barbarians) what are they?
-No tech trading
What version do you typically play?
-Latest
What Civilization(s) do you typically play?
Strongest is Khazad, but play them all


Quiz 1 (Resources):
References are below the questions.
What are the most valuable resources? Why are they the most valuable?
-Military resources, the rest you can live without, although fur is pretty good for a hunting lodge.
Give at least one example of what you'd be willing to trade for the most valuable 3 resources.
-Anything extra I have on hand, depending on how far away any is outside my borders
What are the least valuable resources? Why aren't they worth much?
- I suppose stone barely has any wonders available for it.
What resources will you go out of your way to attempt to obtain? What methods will you use to obtain them?
-Military resources and large clumps of useful resources that would be good for a city, the method to obtain? brute force, what else?
Do you focus on particular technologies (or avoid them) depending on if you have a resource? If so, which ones?
-Military resource, military related tech, easy to figure out, regeants for casters, horse for cavalry line... move forward in the infantry line anyway until you can brute force some iron or mithril, avoid ironworking if your sheaim.
Are there any conditions for which you'll build something that has nothing to do with the resource in the tile that grants the resource (for example, Farm in a Cows tile)? If so, what are those conditions?
-The condition? if I don't have the required tech and it's slightly better then a average square, like cottage on cow.
What is the most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
If for economy, anything in the divination line such as mind
What is the second most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Water, improve your production and food.
What is the third most valuable Mana Resource? Why?
Life and spirit, opens wonders and gives passive effects.
What is the least valuable Mana Resource? Why?
-Dimensional, it leads to nothing, it just takes you back to the capital, whoopity doo, has no passive bonus
What is the maximum number of a mana resource that you want?
-2, unless I have a unit like the mithril golem.

For the most valuable Mana Resource, how valuable are the second through fifth instances of that resource in comparison to the first one?

Are there any Mana resources that have values of there second or greater instances of their resource substantially different from the most valuable one? Why?
-I don't know how to answer that.
 

xanaqui42

King
Joined
Sep 5, 2006
Messages
780
Quiz 2 is up. For all those who answered Quiz 1, thank you. I was shocked at the quantity and the quality of the information I received; this is not a typical way to elicit information for expert systems, but it seems that it's likely better than the canonical methods. We are presently in the process of starting to use the data extracted from it.

For anyone who already answered Quiz 0, note that the final question was added after reading the first group of responses.
 

KingOfLands

Warlord
Joined
Dec 21, 2006
Messages
227
Quiz 0, New Question:

What Civilizations do you usually play:
- I dabble, but so far my hands-down favorite is the Khazad. As a side note I've come around a bit on Law mana - it's all right.

Quiz 2 (Promotions):

1. What are the most valuable Promotions? Why are they the most valuable?
Spoiler :
- March, Mobility, Commando, and Cover, in about that order. The first three are great because they speed your units up immensely on the offensive; I get very irritated about heroes who can't March. Cover is essential for getting by the only defensive units that you can't simply run over by out-teching or having more combat promotions than.
In the early game, Shock is fantastic if you're in a situation where you'll run into barbarians, but its usefulness fades as the game goes on.
That said, the AI's habit of going mostly for the Combat line is reasonable - it just ought to be more willing to get other things (the vs-unit promotions, for example) as the situation suggests. This may be a side-effect of my playing on Prince and Monarch, though.

2. What are the least valuable Promotions? Why aren't they worth much?
Spoiler :
- Amphibious and Magic Resistance (plus its derivatives) are all but useless in single-player. Guerrilla doesn't turn out to have a lot of oomph, either, but there are situations in which it doesn't hurt. Blitz is disappointing only because it's so far down the tech tree.

3. For promotions that you can gain by leveling, what are your favorites for each of the following categories? Are there exceptions to your preferred promotions?

Spoiler :
- Mobility is good on anything with a default movement of 1. It's less useful on recon/cavalry units. I usually throw it on something once it has all the promotions I think it needs to do its job.

(The #1 best promotion for anyone who can get it is Vampirism. Your mileage will not vary. Just to throw that out there.)

1. Animal Units
- Combat. Duin and the other werewolves are just vastly more dangerous versions of giant spiders.
2. Arcane Units
- These are pretty much a no-brainer - the schools you want them to cast and combat promotions / spell extension if they're summoners or Fire school. Utility wizards should probably get Mobility first.
3. Archery Units
- The drill line is actually pretty good if you plan to use these on the offensive, but mainly I go for City Defense.
4. Beast Units
- Larry, Moe, and Curly need Commando eventually to get the best use out of them. I haven't had much opportunity to try the other units in this class - most are so powerful that promotions are kind of an afterthought, so far as I can tell.
5. Disciple Units
- Spells you want them to cast, and the Combat line, with City Defense an option if you're using them to preserve a garrison. The Undead units are enjoyable to give Cannibalize to. I tend to use most of the normal-race combat disciples as stack defenders or in place of the units whose function they imitate.
6. Melee Units
- Combat 1, Shock/Cover depending on the phase of the game, more combat or City Raider depending on availability and whether they're being used for offense or defense.
7. Mounted Units
- I find myself using mounted units to run down others' mounted units / pillagers / various irritants, so the combat line and Formation are normal choices for me.
8. Naval Units
- +1 Cargo if it's a boat that's for carrying things. Otherwise, Drill, then combat.
9. Recon Units
- The Hunter tree wants straight combat and maybe animal training or Woodsman / Forest Stealth. Drill can be useful on recon units with combat 3+, as well, and you might take it earlier on Assassins / Shadows.
10. Siege Weapons
- Collateral damage - what else are they for? - especially on UU siege weapons. Combat afterwards.


4. What promotions will you use only in certain situations (and what are those situations)?
Spoiler :
- The various -slaying promotions. I might take an Orc slayer or two in the early game if the Barbarians are being especially obnoxious, but otherwise I don't give units thing-slaying on a regular basis. Scourge is probably the best of the lot (and I'd like to see the computer use it reactively, since it loves researching Way of the Wicked so much) unless you're looking at an elf/dwarf heavy game for some reason, and I imagine these are more useful in competitive MP. I'll take Fear and Stigmata where available, but only once I think a unit is in good shape already.


5. For what promotions will you gain a spell just so you can use that promotion?
Spoiler :

- If I understand the question right, the enchantment line and the body line are my favorites for buffing spells. Valor is pretty decent too.


6. For what promotions will you gain a unit just so you can use that promotion?
Spoiler :
- Of the stuff not mentioned above, Medic.


7. Do you choose the units you promote based on their promotions? If so, what are your preferred units to promote based on promotions? Are there units you never upgrade based on their (presumably negative) promotions?
Spoiler :

- I have a standard mental order (combat 1, shock 1, shock 2, combat 2 or city raider for melee units, for example) for each unit class, and don't deviate from it most of the time. Otherwise, I can't think of an applicable answer; everything needs promotions, except maybe diseased or plagued units I can't cure yet.


8. Do you promote proportionally (i.e. Promote 1/2 your units to attack cities, and the other 1/2 to defend them, or something like that)? If so, what are the rules you use, and when do you use them?
Spoiler :
- Nope. I do mix in a variety in my attack stacks when my target is using several different units to defend, and the same with active defense units if I'm getting attacked by a variety of units, but there's no formula I stick to.

9. Do you promote your Heroes any differently than non-Hero units? If so, what Hero(s), and how do you promote them?

Spoiler :

- With Heroes, I tend to go straight to Combat 5 before anything else, with mobility an option at first if they have somewhere to be and it's a slow hero (i.e. Bambur, Maros). Their power is high enough and they're going to be active long enough that it's simplest to just double their strength before I worry about what else I want them to do. Cavalry heroes may get the withdrawl promotions - I don't want to lose them. I have a bad habit of using spellcasting heroes as casters first and units second, too, but I'm trying to break that.

10. Do you use methods to gain free (or cheap) XP for your units? If so, what are those methods?

Spoiler :
- Buildings and civics that provide XP might be called into play, especially civ-specific ones. If I'm feeling particularly saucy I will have recon units travel in pairs for added security, and I am a big fan of collateral damage. Otherwise, no - I just try to get them a favorable matchup.


11. What methods do you use to grant your units free promotions? Which promotions do you do this with?
Spoiler :

- So far as I can tell this comes into play mainly with Arcane units. If there's a magic school (typically Body or Fire) I know I want all / many of my casters to have the initial spell in, I'll build double nodes for it. I use the free promotions that come with upgrades for spell selections and devote the ones from leveling to combat / extension / etc where I can. I don't really have a lot of use for the wonders that grant free promotions, but might build them if I think I can get some use out of them. It does seem to me that the AI weights them too favorably in general.


12. Are there units that you'll destroy if you cannot easily remove a (negative) promotion? Do you use them differently if they have a (negative) promotion? In either case, note the (negative) promotion.
Spoiler :
- I really hate Plagued / Diseased. It'll get me to stop using a unit altogether, but that just means I find them somewhere vaguely useful to stand until if/when I can cure them. Otherwise, nope.


13. What Crew promotions do you use, and in what circumstances?
Spoiler :
- All three, depending on what I want a ship to do. The added movement one is the default for anything but a transport.


14. If you use the Weapon Type promotions, where do you produce Forges and Weaponsmiths to gain these promotions? Under what conditions will you not immediately upgrade the weapon type of a unit?
Spoiler :
- I'll build Forges in every city I can, eventually, but the first one or two go in my best production towns. Skeleton garrison units and units deep in enemy territory are the only ones that don't get weapon upgrades as soon as I can arrange them.
 

uberfish

Immortal
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
Messages
1,365
0-1: usually Immortal
0-2: no but I should try it sometime
0-3: normal or epic
0-4: standard
0-5: fractal or pangaea for FFH
0-6: raging barbarians sometimes
0-7: latest version with no added sub-mods
0-8: various, I often return to Ljosalfar for their unique tree economy though

1-1: copper, reagents, incense, gold in that order. If you don't have reagents/incense you can use copper to get them. Gold just gives a ton of commerce for early game
1-2: extra mana
1-3: anything hidden under jungle because clearing jungle comes quite late in FFH
1-4: spare health/happy resources
1-5: same as 1-1
1-6: don't research techs unless you have or will acquire soon the resources to train the units
1-7: very occasionally if it's the only way to chain irrigation to an area blocked by hills
1-8: Fire - reduce city defences, hit units at range
1-9: Water - to put out fires and reclaim desert
1-10: Enchantment - Haste is very good. The other buffs aren't bad either.
1-11: Dimensional - 1 ability and all it does is save units that would be dead anyway if the enemy had a few more troops.
1-12: More can't hurt, but I prefer getting a new mana type when I get a new node. I choose not to min-max this.

2-1: Mobility I because a 2 move unit is so much better than a 1 move unit when attacking or counterattacking. Commando on faster units gets pretty silly too.
2-2: I don't really like the anti-racial or anti-element promotions, they make units too specialized
2-3: I promote units as either general fighters with combat, or city attackers with city raider/cover, spellcasters just get mobility and spells. I've never actually built a siege unit in FFH.
2-4: see 2-2, but if I know I'm going to be in a long war with a specific race giving some disposable cannon fodder units these promotions can be useful
2-5: huh?
2-6: medic, sentry
2-7: I assume you mean upgrade? I upgrade only high xp units or as emergency defence.
2-8: This depends on how much combat is being done in the field as opposed to cities.
2-9: Heroes usually go down combat line first, then anti-city. Mage heroes might take combat 5 fire 3 too, because they have a ton of xp that normal mages don't and generally have some spells.
2-10: Apprenticeship, collateral damage spells
2-11: not really
2-12: no
2-13: depends on the ship's job, ships tasked for coastal defence get +strength for example
2-14: forges - everywhere, weaponsmiths - a good production city as close as possible to enemy lines
 
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