Are you upset that the Turks are not included as major civs in the game?

[ahm]

it was discussed in another forum. i hope, people get what they want as a result after the poll.


the thread name was "Turks?":

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=123197

 

[Himalia]

Well i opted for the second choice as no matter what nations you put in the list of 18 someone had to be missed out and regardless of who they are as long as they make it the expansion pack that would sort it.

 

[Meleager]

I voted for the last one because i dont care as long as the gameplay is good.

And isn't this in the wrong forum?

 

[Bismark2990]

The Turks could be added in a later expansion rather then the first copy of the game. Other Civilizations that are in the game currently such as Germany, America, China, and England out weight their priority in my opinon. But as long as Germany remains in the game, I'm perfectly fine. Besides, I would rather see other Civilizations to have a chance in the game's expansion.

 

[Kyriakos]

Actually germany is one of the weakest choices for the first 18, unlike england, germany became a major power very late in history (apart from austria, which isnt germany anyway) & i think that they are in the first 18 for even more dubious reasons than the usa, since the usa could at any rate be argued to be in because it is a superpower today.
But i also think that turkey didnt have a place in the first 18; apart from Mali, which is in there because it is central african, the rest of the civs outweight it. But imo it has a place in expansion packs.

 

[Bismark2990]

Actually I would think it would be arguable that most of the successes in science today have in some way or another come from German scientists in some way or another. If you would notice during the times of W.W.II the Germans were the most advanced nation in the world, and almost beat the Americans in developing the Atomic Bomb (you also can't forget that they developed the first missile). Even the scientists from Germany we're divided up and sent to either the former Soviet Union and America after the war because they we're so advanced scientifically as a country. So I think as a Militaristic and Scientific nation Germany is a very solid civ choice for cIV.

 

[Superkrest]

the germans in fact started there nuclear program earlier then the US..but in all fact were light years behind becuase of budget constraints..and hittlers own doubts of the weapon...but in pretty much every other aspect(with out including the end of the war.) the germans proved there scientific might...on half the budget of the US

 

[Xen]

it was the Italian scientist, Enrico Fermi who paved that way for the creation of the Atomic bomb, as with most other other nuclear based early advances[/i]

 

[Kyriakos]

You missed the point, germany became a major power, scientifically and militarily, very late, in the 19th century that is. In civ terms that isnt that great, and is only comparable to the usa, which however is a lot more powerful today than germany. This isnt reality, just a game, so you dont need to be offended by an argument; if you check germany against almost all of the other civs in vanilla civ4 it isnt one of the strongest ones in a game that begins in 4000 BC imho.

 

[Urederra]

You missed the point, germany became a major power, scientifically and militarily, very late, in the 19th century that is. In civ terms that isnt that great, and is only comparable to the usa, which however is a lot more powerful today than germany. This isnt reality, just a game, so you dont need to be offended by an argument; if you check germany against almost all of the other civs in vanilla civ4 it isnt one of the strongest ones in a game that begins in 4000 BC imho.

I agree with you, varwnos. And if I have to remove an european civ to make space for the babilonians, that would be the Germans.

But, the problem is that the germans would buy the game, the babilonians not.

 

[Superkrest]

as you so very well pointed out...its nothing to do with importance.(to a point) its the marketing....civs people will know..and buy

 

[apatheist]

Germany as a single nation has only had a substantial impact since the late 1800s, sure. India, though, was only rarely a single nation in history, but they're worthy of inclusion. The many German states were still very significant culturally, militarily, politically, and scientifically, even if they were only a unified nation under Charlemagne and from Bismarck on.

 

[Himalia]

Well the Germans caused both world wars thats not exactly something to be proud of but historically it significant. I think Germany deserve there spot in the game it might not be the strongest like say the first ten choices but still there i would of been surpriesed if they only got into the expansion but at the end of the day that would of done. 18 Civs i feel just isnt enough lets also keep in mind that maketing potential can swing it when its a close desion as it would of been for some of the countries chosen.

 

[Legionary37]

Well, it was the Germans (Well, better known as Gothes, and a few others) who brught down the Roman Empire...

The Turks should be in the first expansion. They simply haven't made the cut yet, but they shouyld defenitely be considered in the future.

 

[ahm]

Actually germany is one of the weakest choices for the first 18, unlike england, germany became a major power very late in history (apart from austria, which isnt germany anyway) & i think that they are in the first 18 for even more dubious reasons than the usa, since the usa could at any rate be argued to be in because it is a superpower today.
But i also think that turkey didnt have a place in the first 18; apart from Mali, which is in there because it is central african, the rest of the civs outweight it. But imo it has a place in expansion packs.

i see you are taking into consideration the history. did you think about ottomans or seljuks? they were the strongest emperiors at their ages and there is still strong turkish states. why not turks, there isnt in first 18 if it is game about history?

 

[Bismark2990]

This isnt reality, just a game, so you dont need to be offended by an argument; if you check germany against almost all of the other civs in vanilla civ4 it isnt one of the strongest ones in a game that begins in 4000 BC imho.

Well I wasn't offended.

And I won't deny their not the most usable civilization in vanilla civ3 in the beginning. But as pointed out previously in this argument, the Germans (Goths) played an important role in the fall of the Roman Empire, and most of the Roman Generals at that time we're indeed of German heritage. This is shadowed under Rome itself, however.

But, the problem is that the germans would buy the game, the babilonians not.

I agree. Marketing effects how the game is produced hand in hand. Another reason why civilizations like America, Germany, England, and, etc., outweigh the other civilization choices, and also the same reason that copies of Civilization III in the America's will display a leaderhead of Mao for China. Chinese copies of the game will display someone else (I don't know who by memory though).

 

[ComradeDavo]

I'm not too bothered about Turkey, if they want to add them in for an expansion fine, otherwise unless they are required for a scenario I am not concerned.

 

[Xen]

Well, it was the Germans (Well, better known as Gothes, and a few others) who brught down the Roman Empire...

thats the biggest common mistake in the history books; The Germans actually did little to Bring down the Roman empire: they rarelly even invaded at all; rather during the third and 4th centuries Rome was so wracked with civil wars, economic collapse, and civil and cultural frictions, that Rome was in no shape to resist a plague that swept the empire in the 4th/5th centuries; faced with continued economic collapse, the disbarment of professional working people who were not christians (pagans could no longer hold jobs as simple as metal smithing) that a commom remedy was to bring in Barbarians to help serveint he feild armies on the border; when these units decided to estbalish thie rown kingdom, Rome was in no position to stop them, particurlaye after the last of the true Romans in the army were essentially drowned out during the great wars with the Huns; and while Rome woudl come out the dominant in thier epic clash in france, the Roman army of the west was forever broken thierafter. and while Rome woudl be invaded several times by barbarians, one shoudl note that very few of these barbarians considered themselves German at all; its only in moder times that we have put the lable on them, though regardless of that note, it was not the Barbarians whom brought Rome down, it was Rome that brought itself down.

 

[Kyriakos]

i see you are taking into consideration the history. did you think about ottomans or seljuks? they were the strongest emperiors at their ages and there is still strong turkish states. why not turks, there isnt in first 18 if it is game about history?

Ok, but that is pretty much the case of the mongols as well, and in the discussion threads about the civs people often claimed that the mongols shouldnt be in the first 18 either. I just feel that the turkic civs werent of *international* importance in non conquest areas (philosophy, technology, ideas etc) which is why i do not feel that not having them in the first 18 was a mistake. If they arent in any expansion pack it would be probably a mistake, unless ALL of the civs chosen were arguably more important, which is very subjective. But at any rate i think that it is more probable that they will be in one of the expansion packs.

 

[Himalia]

Well i opted for the second choice as no matter what nations you put in the list of 18 someone had to be missed out and regardless of who they are as long as they make it the expansion pack that would sort it.

Hmm quoting myself nevermind. The thing is the answere i actually want to give is not on the list but that was the nearest thing. I wouldnt say i was upset they have been missed out as i wasnt upset that the Babylonians were missed out just o well never mind hope there in the expansion. Theres no nation in the game that makes me think WHY WERE THEY CHOSEN IT MAKES NO SENCE.