Are You With the Herd? Election 2004

After reading this article by unscratchedfoot, please fill in this short survey. :)

  • I'm a proud bovine and part of the herd. Chalk up a Kerry vote for me! Mooooooo!

    Votes: 14 31.8%
  • I have a fondness for chimps. Bush for president! At least we'll get cheaper bananas.

    Votes: 12 27.3%
  • The 3rd guy... uh... fader?... oh yeah... Nader! I vote Nader.

    Votes: 4 9.1%
  • you're an idiot unscratchedfoot :p

    Votes: 14 31.8%

  • Total voters
    44

unscratchedfoot

War is a good thing.
Joined
Apr 25, 2002
Messages
1,623
Location
japan
Herd Mentality

Please think of this article I wrote not as an endorsement of Bush but as an endorsement of thinking. Just so you know, I am not American and therefore do not have strong opinions regarding politics. This is really only a simple study of social psychology.

Just so everyone knows the 2 gentlemen to be discussed, here are photos of them. They are the most flattering pictures I could find. :)

Kerry:
post-2-1082908570.jpg


Bush:
n-bush-as-a-woman-03.jpg



Why is Bush so universally despised while an unknown senator named Kerry is currently considered to be the hottest man in the world among American women? At first this seemed bizarre to me until I thought about the forces behind it.

To understand first why Bush has come to be so bitterly hated lets compare Reagan and Bush.

Reagan is an American hero loved by all while Bush is sliding into a toilet. Why is that? Reagan achieved much during his reign: he added trillions to the national debt, developed the new MX nuclear missile, hugely inflated military spending, wasted 100's of billions of dollars on the failed Starwars system, and started 2 wars. This sounds very similar to Bush except on a much grander scale. Most people will say they hate Bush because he invaded Iraq and is a 'war monger'. Theoretically Reagan should be more than doubly hated than Bush.

They are similar yet Reagan is loved by the majority of Americans. Why? Because Reagan is charismatic and when enough people realized that they started a herd movement of Reagan loving which continues to this day. The herd says Reagan regained American pride after the Vietnam mess, and the herd even went to the extreme of crediting him with 'winning' the Cold War.

So now why is Bush hated by so many? Hmm.. because some anti-war people started a trend of calling Bush an evil war monger which spread to become a national Bush bashing frenzy.

Most people cannot explain why they hate Bush beyond 'he invaded Iraq'. Sure, Bush has made some bad moves in his term, particularly financially, which anyone who's been following the news should know about. I cannot think of any president of any country who has not made some bad moves.

Then comes Kerry. The herd does not know who Kerry really is. In fact, Kerry was one of the most unpopular senators about a year ago. But the herd needs something to oppose Bush with and Kerry's lucky number came up. Having no goods at all, Kerry relied totally on his accusations that Bush dodged the draft way back during the Vietnam War. Beyond the fact that Kerry was proven to be telling lies, what does that have to do with an election 39 years later? Shouldn't the election be based on important issues like the economy and terrorism? Eventually Kerry's team came up with some more concrete ideas to campaign with like healthcare, but is the Bush-bashing Kerry even aware of his standpoint? Now Kerry is having a ball accusing Bush of being a liar.

So what will come of the herd's decision? Having the temporary support of the herd, Kerry may well win the election and then take his turn of sliding into the toilet when the herd thinks he's not so cool as they once thought. How well can Kerry handle terrorism and economics? Even Clinton lost favor because of overblown scandal issues despite his excellent economic results and changing the deficit to a surplus.
 
Actually, ol'Billy-boys approval spiked during the Lewinsky thing.

as far as the article goes: I could give you a big hug right now if it were possible, if I were American I would be saying "forget this, third party candidate for me" at this very moment. Or writing my own name in for president.

BTW Ive made this observation before: why is it okay to splash bush's face around with a chimps at every turn? if someone did this for a particularily simian looking black person, they would be attacked, not applauded! Hypocracy, though the other side is no better.
 
Maybe because Reagan managed to actually improve foriegn relations while Bush is putting America in a crappy diplomatic location.

Bush just pisses me off, pretty much everything about him. I guess he's a good guy, but he just irritates me.
 
I think a lot of people have a problem with the fact that no WMDs have been found in Iraq and there are now 1000+ dead Americans over there.
 
unscratchedfoot said:
It's all about character ;) Notice how policy has no influence on your opinion?
Not really, it's just that practically all his policies piss me off. The few exceptions were his energy bill (which got defeated) and Afghanistan. Most other policies just piss me off.
 
Most people cannot explain why they hate Bush beyond 'he invaded Iraq'.
I think that is just something that Bush supporters are claiming. Bush opposers have plenty of disatisfactions with GWB other than the Iraq War ie, the failing economy. But even if it is only the Iraq War, it encompass a lot more than just the invasion, ie: cutting veteran pay, lying, pissing off the UN, and taking focus off terrorism.

I pick for option 4 because I'm not old enough to vote, but I would vote for Kerry if I could
 
I think Bush is hated because he was incapable of finesse when presented with times where America could finesse it's way through the Middle East and still keep it's international respect intact while still sucessfully fighting the war on terrorism. It is obvious that invading Iraq, while being a war against a dictator was also a war that Bush launched for personal reasons without the support of most of the world. While some in the US see it as a rightous war most people in the rest of the world see it as an example of a unilateralist US that will do whatever it pleases on the world stage. Hmm... we see our vengence as proper but suddenly for the first time ever other democratic nation states are beginning to see us a rouge state like Iran or Syria. They are too polite and too tied into our trade networks to say it out loud yet but they feel it. Do we want to be a democratic Syria or Uganda who's will is feared but respected only because we have the power to ruin other nations and browbeat fellow democracies in the world who disagree with us? As David Gergen recently said in an importent op-ed piece even for a nation like the US most of our power in the world comes from soft power i.e. the power that comes from working in a world of like minded allies. It comes from using our economic and moral power; Bush is ignorant of the first and has morgaged the second.

Where is the option for I despise them both but Kerry couldn't help but be a much less terrible president than Bush has been?
 
Bush opposers have plenty of disatisfactions with GWB other than the Iraq War ie, the failing economy.
You know, a funny thing that, considering the downturn started in Clinton's last year - and that the situation's been improving (up 1.5 million jobs since August, estimates indicate there may be a net gain at the end of Bush's term).

The other thing that strikes me is how people often criticise Bush for being overtly religious (consider Ronald Reagan) or for his military record (consider, again, Clinton, who is IIRC, the only felon [draft dodging] ever elected President). It seems it's chic to hate Bush for being Bush. What makes it more amusing is that Kerry's trying to win by out-Bushing Bush by portraying himself as a Centrist, when he's as far Left as Ted Kennedy.

Personally, I dislike both, though for different reasons. Kerry's probably a better choice for domestic affairs while Bush is probably superior as a foreign affairs President IMO (I'm for the most part conservative abroad and liberal at home). Bush is screwing up the environment, halting social progression in some areas, and doing the same with some scientific research. Meanwhile Kerry is advocating nonsense like going back to the U.N. and appologizing and sending more troops to Iraq (wasn't that [democratic President] LBJ's solution to Vietnam [that war Kerry was in and later criticised]? Send more troops?). Plus he's a flip-flopper on everything - all about short term political gain and what looks best, no moral substance at all. It's really a case of voting for whichever you think is the lesser of two evils in my estimation. Sadly, I lean a bit more toward Bush than Kerry at the moment. I'd put a comment about an effective third party here but Nader's wackier than either of them.

Funny thing, you know Bush and Kerry are rather distant blood relatives? A conspiracy I say!
 
If I were an American voter, I'd go for Bush, even if his policies have been by and large too liberal and moderate for my tastes. In terms of past elections, the horse doesn't often toss the rider midway through the race.
 
I find it hard to really choose - I am glad not to be a Yankian.

But as it stands, I foresee amusing global scenarios if either Kerry or Bush win!

One thing is for sure - CFC is going to be the place to be during November!

:yeah:
 
Bush/chimp picture is HI-LARIOUS. :rolleyes: How cliche, as if we haven't all seen it 100 times.
 
Well said, scratchy!

BTW, risking to sound like Curt, I must say, the religionism of George Bush is a deciding factor to me. It makes me dislike him more than anything else. Generally I don't disagree that much with him, but the born-again christianity, that's just too much.
And you all know what I think about Kerry. Had I been an American, I think I'd vote strategically - Republican - or follow my heart and vote libertarian...
 
Cheaper bananas for me! (And, hey, why are bananas so cheap? How can enormous quantities be delivered to every supermarket in America for $0.48/lb? The logistics must be mindboggling.) Bush is doing fine. The economy is rebounding. The Iraqi threat eliminated at minimal cost. Yeah, there are two America's. One where someone can apply hardwork to his job, for example a trial lawyer, and make millions or someone could just marry into privelege. Then there is the other America where a man can pass the wealth acquired throughout his life to his children to make their life easier. But even if that's a problem, it seems a small one.

I see this election as very important. The war on terrorism must be continued. But in addition the party in the White House during the next four years stands to gain greatly. Everyone wants to measure the economy by the unemployment rate, and jobs are about to explode (figuratively of course). The baby boomers are going to start retiring and we will have to export jobs overseas or to W. Virginia just to keep things moving here. The whole world will gain. In my industry for example (power), half of the people will be retiring in the next 8 years (<-unscientific estimation on my part). Where will those workers come from?

As far as the election, I'm hoping for an electoral college tie (possible now that there is an even number of votes). In that case the Senate and House declare the winner. Now, the House is solidly Republican, but if the Democrats can reach a 50/50 split in the Senate (the vote occurs after the members take office), then since Cheney would not be allowed to break the tie, we should be able to see a lot of fireworks and squirming in Washington. CFC would be the place to be for months.
 
Politics?
It's all men in suits and dough - That's is why I don't care – They don’t care about me.

The world stage and the War?
There are only a limited amount of small, crud countries that are within the easiness level desired by the US forces.

In the next four years, the USA can invade these small nations, in the same style as Iraq.
Under a flurry of confusing and blaring Media chicane.

This way GWB can keep the media veneer of the 'War On Terror' going - Without having to take on a real military threat.
Pushovers: I am thinking about Cuba, Syria and Iran here.
Real Threats: I am thinking about NK, China, Russia, and Chechnya.


Obviously keeping this war going is in the Bush-Admin/PNAC interest.
The spectre of terror keeps the US people scared and compliant to the wishes of the White House.
It’s just what any leading politician dreams of: An obedient, patriotic population.

I am just saddened that the US cannot just go in and do it itself. (They have the power to)
I would rather see my own nation (UK) pull out and spend the money elsewhere.

Anyway - Good times are ahead for us posters!

:D
 
Symphony D, I like the points you made.

In the first post I put in a proper sized photo of Kerry to avoid making it look like a pro-Bush thread and to give Kerry the respect he deserves ;)

Bananas are sure cheap aren't they? Well, thank Bush for it! :D
 
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