arena like buildings

bill2505

King
Joined
Sep 16, 2009
Messages
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i updated today with the latest version. the arena like buildings are very overpowered.they give tons of money and happiness and culture but they dont have a trade off . except the removal of - production they used to have they dont even have a maintanance cost.
please give a bad effect to them like - crime (in the future where the crime feature will be more balanced) ,- production or a maintance cost
 
i also dont like - :hammers: effects and i hate hate hate - :science: effect but i understand - :gold:
Everything cost money


Arena like shoud give :happiness: :culture: but should cost a lot of money.
In reality Arena like buildings give happiness only when they have events for free so city must pay for it
 
Lots of buildings have no negative effects. That's why you build them. Personally I only ever built the arena type buildings in my military cities, as many of the buildings gave +xp to melee (arena) and mounted units (hippodrome), and in my largest cities that were approaching the happy cap. Otherwise, the hammers could be better spent on research, which is sometimes the case with buildings.

If you want to change things yourself, it's really easy. In your C2C folder (the normal route is: C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\C2C Release) is a folder called Assets. This contains all the game files. The ones you want are in Assets\XML\Buildings\Civ4BuildingInfos.xml
It opens with any text editor, though if you use notepad you might end up with weird formatting.

...unless the buildings you're looking for are still in the Modules folder, which is the price you pay for playing a living mod with lots of modders like C2C.

It takes some getting used to, but the code is relatively simple, and the xml files can alter lots of things, such as building maintenance, gold cost, or hammer cost. You can even make them into national or world wonders in the CIV4BuildingClassInfos.xml file.

I myself have a list of things 2 pages long that I alter once I download a new version. The best part is, if you make a change or make an addition, and play with it for a while and truly believe it is a worthwhile change that everyone will enjoy, you can add it to the suggestions.
 
Lots of buildings have no negative effects. That's why you build them. Personally I only ever built the arena type buildings in my military cities, as many of the buildings gave +xp to melee (arena) and mounted units (hippodrome), and in my largest cities that were approaching the happy cap. Otherwise, the hammers could be better spent on research, which is sometimes the case with buildings.

If you want to change things yourself, it's really easy. In your C2C folder (the normal route is: C:\Program Files\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4\Beyond the Sword\Mods\C2C Release) is a folder called Assets. This contains all the game files. The ones you want are in Assets\XML\Buildings\Civ4BuildingInfos.xml
It opens with any text editor, though if you use notepad you might end up with weird formatting.

...unless the buildings you're looking for are still in the Modules folder, which is the price you pay for playing a living mod with lots of modders like C2C.

It takes some getting used to, but the code is relatively simple, and the xml files can alter lots of things, such as building maintenance, gold cost, or hammer cost. You can even make them into national or world wonders in the CIV4BuildingClassInfos.xml file.

I myself have a list of things 2 pages long that I alter once I download a new version. The best part is, if you make a change or make an addition, and play with it for a while and truly believe it is a worthwhile change that everyone will enjoy, you can add it to the suggestions.
i disagree about this. i find very realistic the fact that many buildings have drawbacks
thank you for the tips
 
Lots of buildings have no negative effects. That's why you build them. Personally I only ever built the arena type buildings in my military cities, as many of the buildings gave +xp to melee (arena) and mounted units (hippodrome), and in my largest cities that were approaching the happy cap. Otherwise, the hammers could be better spent on research, which is sometimes the case with buildings.
Good building designs are those that are not a no brainer. This sounds like the arena type buildings have a proper niche.
 
If you try opening .xml files in notepad, the formatting sometimes doesn't come through. Each line should be, well, on a different line. If it looks like a solid wall of text, you can download Notepad++ for free. It's really good for xml and python and config files. And free.
 
+:culture: and +:gold: were just not enough to counter -:hammers:. People just did not want to build them.

I dnt understand this... I always build them in nearly all my cities because the malus is really nothing... -1 (maybe -2 with % bonus) in production while you have at many hundreds of production?

The only buildings I nerver build are those with unealthy crime or big maintenance with nearly no positive effect (Well, Trap pit, Assassin Den, tavern and all...)
Lose less of 0,5% of your production is not a problem, I even think the production malus must be bigger.
 
Bur from many plyers point of view something like that is:

Why i should build (put effort) something and loose something that I already have.

I saw Sid Meier speech and he talk about good game design. He said something like this
It is better to add smaller bonus to building than add negative effects to others.

With negative effects from buildings we have a pack of it that many avoid
 
Bur from many plyers point of view something like that is:

Why i should build (put effort) something and loose something that I already have.

I saw Sid Meier speech and he talk about good game design. He said something like this
It is better to add smaller bonus to building than add negative effects to others.

With negative effects from buildings we have a pack of it that many avoid

tell sid meier that his civ 5 is the worst civ ever (playing both civ 3 and 4);). first let him learn how to create a good games and not spoil it
rather than comment when his game suck
why: because in order to do something good you have to hurt
because in reality every action has an reaction.you build an arena. you will have many positive things but some negative ones ( hooligans ,maintanance,production lost)

plus its gameplay wise very good. instead of spaming buildings you have to think if i build this buildings first and this second will i get the maximum benefits or the opposite

i ask the developers why not all building have some negatives effects (like maintance)
 
CIV 5 is worst civ ever in your eyes because you are civfanatic

He simply try to make civ5 playable and fun even for new players.
 
CIV 5 is worst civ ever in your eyes because you are civfanatic

He simply try to make civ5 playable and fun even for new players.

:trouble: its another thing making the game more easy to be learned by newbies but its another thing simplifying the game in order to gather some farmvile players( of course i am not refering to you)
.plus this s not c2c philosophy:D
 
Bur from many plyers point of view something like that is:

Why i should build (put effort) something and loose something that I already have.

I saw Sid Meier speech and he talk about good game design. He said something like this
It is better to add smaller bonus to building than add negative effects to others.

With negative effects from buildings we have a pack of it that many avoid

Sid also says that the game should provide 'interesting choices' everywhere possible.

If every building is perceived as a great thing to build by all players then all we have is a matter of preferences determining the order in which we carry out little more than a mad race to build every building available.

But with a few extremely minor and highly rational negatives coming with many buildings, it really tests the player to judge what they value, possibly how badly they need to address an immediate problem and what sacrifices they will make to do so, and their ability to make a more intricate judgement call when choosing to select to build or not build a particular option. THAT is a more significant 'interesting decision' imo.

Particularly when we have a feature that allows the truly clever to sell buildings at critical junctures to remove negatives they took for the sake of short term needs that are now otherwise resolved. Making a truly clever player even more enabled by his wisdom.

And Sid himself probably had minimal input on Civ5. It reeks of the scars of a corporate driven game design seeking to tear apart the foundations to make it somehow more appealing, and thus more profitable, to the vast majority of less educated, lower attention spanned, mindless zombie public our media has given rise to with flash imagery, blurb advertising, stimulant addictions and the byproduct of idiots breeding at a greater rate than intelligent folks. Our games are getting dumbed down for us because too few really WANT an intellectual challenge. The vast majority of humanity wants to THINK they're thinking without having to really THINK!

Sid's games never really appealed to that mainstream audience. Just not enough killing and slaughter per second for most and far too much planning and real strategy. So I personally believe they were doomed to complete failure even trying to widen its appeal by making every effort to gloss over any real planning necessary with features like embarqing, 1 unit tile limits and less overall build options, because they were only going to shave off the amount of players who found it entertaining without really significantly adding many new ones.

No version of Civ will never be a high adrenaline driven game the whole way through, and thank god for that because I find that it takes an EBB of adrenaline in a game experience to truly achieve a strong impact when things do get truly interesting. This process just makes it all more... 'worth it' to me.

So to get back on the topic, I think having those buildings expressing a negative, and having some players decide not to EVER build them as a result, is not a failure of the rationale of the game design, but a success. And those players who make such static determinations about what they will and will not build are not willing to take a step out of self determined policies to more fully evaluate the benefits versus the penalties and are, as a result, utilizing a less than perfect strategy. And that's exactly the trap we challenge our players to see past when looking at a building with a negative value on a highly important yield. And that's exactly why it was a great, no... ingenious... game design concept to have those minor penalties present on those buildings in the first place.
 
<snip>

The only buildings I never build are those with unhealthy crime or big maintenance with nearly no positive effect (Well, Trap pit, Assassin Den, tavern and all...)
<snip>

I agree with this portion. Although I will build 1 Assassin's Den for the whole Empire now that you can only have a Max of 3 Assassins.

JosEPh
 
I think that buildings like assassins den should be national wonder. They have big value for AI so i can imagine that AI build more than one with no reason (only 3 units allowed).

@hydro
 
Sid also says that the game should provide 'interesting choices' everywhere possible.

If every building is perceived as a great thing to build by all players then all we have is a matter of preferences determining the order in which we carry out little more than a mad race to build every building available.

But with a few extremely minor and highly rational negatives coming with many buildings, it really tests the player to judge what they value, possibly how badly they need to address an immediate problem and what sacrifices they will make to do so, and their ability to make a more intricate judgement call when choosing to select to build or not build a particular option. THAT is a more significant 'interesting decision' imo.

Particularly when we have a feature that allows the truly clever to sell buildings at critical junctures to remove negatives they took for the sake of short term needs that are now otherwise resolved. Making a truly clever player even more enabled by his wisdom.

And Sid himself probably had minimal input on Civ5. It reeks of the scars of a corporate driven game design seeking to tear apart the foundations to make it somehow more appealing, and thus more profitable, to the vast majority of less educated, lower attention spanned, mindless zombie public our media has given rise to with flash imagery, blurb advertising, stimulant addictions and the byproduct of idiots breeding at a greater rate than intelligent folks. Our games are getting dumbed down for us because too few really WANT an intellectual challenge. The vast majority of humanity wants to THINK they're thinking without having to really THINK!

Sid's games never really appealed to that mainstream audience. Just not enough killing and slaughter per second for most and far too much planning and real strategy. So I personally believe they were doomed to complete failure even trying to widen its appeal by making every effort to gloss over any real planning necessary with features like embarqing, 1 unit tile limits and less overall build options, because they were only going to shave off the amount of players who found it entertaining without really significantly adding many new ones.

No version of Civ will never be a high adrenaline driven game the whole way through, and thank god for that because I find that it takes an EBB of adrenaline in a game experience to truly achieve a strong impact when things do get truly interesting. This process just makes it all more... 'worth it' to me.

So to get back on the topic, I think having those buildings expressing a negative, and having some players decide not to EVER build them as a result, is not a failure of the rationale of the game design, but a success. And those players who make such static determinations about what they will and will not build are not willing to take a step out of self determined policies to more fully evaluate the benefits versus the penalties and are, as a result, utilizing a less than perfect strategy. And that's exactly the trap we challenge our players to see past when looking at a building with a negative value on a highly important yield. And that's exactly why it was a great, no... ingenious... game design concept to have those minor penalties present on those buildings in the first place.
i agree
 
So to get back on the topic, I think having those buildings expressing a negative, and having some players decide not to EVER build them as a result, is not a failure of the rationale of the game design, but a success. And those players who make such static determinations about what they will and will not build are not willing to take a step out of self determined policies to more fully evaluate the benefits versus the penalties and are, as a result, utilizing a less than perfect strategy. And that's exactly the trap we challenge our players to see past when looking at a building with a negative value on a highly important yield. And that's exactly why it was a great, no... ingenious... game design concept to have those minor penalties present on those buildings in the first place.

Sorry Tbrd but that's just plain poppycock.

You look as a player to see how and when a building can be utilized. But when a bldg's value becomes so narrow that it's only really ever usable but 1 out 100 times the bldg has no real worth. Up it's % chance to be used and it becomes a viable tool. It's that simple period.

JosEPh
 
Sorry Tbrd but that's just plain poppycock.

You look as a player to see how and when a building can be utilized. But when a bldg's value becomes so narrow that it's only really ever usable but 1 out 100 times the bldg has no real worth. Up it's % chance to be used and it becomes a viable tool. It's that simple period.

JosEPh

So for a moment, lets consider the buidings in question then. You're asserting that their value was made 'so narrow that its only ever really ever usable 1 out of 100 times'.

We have +gold, +happiness and in some cases +health and/or +xp coming from those sports buildings.

When you get to the end of a building tree and have pretty much built everything you wanted, what do you build? Usually, if you're like me, wealth or research. This converts a % of your :hammers: into gold or research.

Gold converts directly to research if you're on 100% and equally to other needs if you aren't.

So either way you look at it, a sacrificed :hammers:, even though it equates to a loss of perhaps 5 overall since its off the pre-adjusted base and not off the net, is still overall worthwhile for more gold if you're on top of your buildings in a city, especially when you have happiness and health and possibly xp coming in as well, which even for ancillary cities is useful in a pinch. Since you're ending up converting your production to research/gold at the end, and you get more gold from the building than the sacrificed production would produce if the city was set to generate added wealth directly, I don't see how these buildings should ever be on the 'never' list for any city. Although I was tending to hold them off until the city had built most of its buildings anyhow unless the health or happiness benefits were in high demand.

This is a far cry from making those buildings useless in 99% of all cities.


Now, that said, my wife would like to add:
Please give us an ability to select buildings to go into a 'never build' category that gets them out of her list of buildables! She finds some buildings unworthy. I must admit there are still some that are unworthy of ever building: Garbage Docks for example (unless they've been extremely edited since I brought up how imbalanced they are...)
 
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