Arid Map first 100 turn gameplay

[Liex]

I believe alien units spawn with an immutable aggression level towards specific players (ie. 100% aggression for Player 1, 25% aggression for Player 2 etc for a specific alien unit); because while you attack the aliens or destroy their nests, you can see how their aggressiveness does not change, only new units will have different values.

That would explain the different aggression levels, but at 18:20 of the 2nd ARC video he destroyed a nest and an orange manticore became red.

 

[Esperr]

So looking forward to this game so much, so sad that the diplomacy is an exact cut and paste from civ V.

 

[AriochIV]

So looking forward to this game so much, so sad that the diplomacy is an exact cut and paste from civ V.

Agreed, though hardly unexpected.

 

[Esperr]

I was actually expecting.diplomacy to be completely revamped considering it was the biggest complaint in civ V

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I was actually expecting.diplomacy to be completely revamped considering it was the biggest complaint in civ V

That would be a good expectation to have for Civ VI, not for Civ V IN SPAAAAACE.

 

[AriochIV]

They said in the very first interviews in April that diplomacy would be pretty much the same as in Civ V. And that was before they'd thought of Favors.

 

[Westwall]

They said in the very first interviews in April that diplomacy would be pretty much the same as in Civ V. And that was before they'd thought of Favors.

And even that's treated as just another resource. Which is odd since they said they really wanted favors to feel like the Godfather, where you owe people and they owe you, etc. So there should really be some flavor text to add to that feel.

In fact the whole diplomacy system as it stands could be improved considerably by just overlaying the whole thing with a set of clever/snarky dialogue options that do the same thing but feel more like you're having an actual 1-on-1 conversation with a fellow leader, instead of just opening the trade window from World of Warcraft.

 

[Mustakrakish]

I was actually expecting.diplomacy to be completely revamped considering it was the biggest complaint in civ V

Exactly what I was saying. Thouhg not completely revamped, but reasonably made changes here and there besides the favors added.

Anyway still a day one buy for me. But I think I'm done with streams, videos, previews etc. until then. Feel like I've seen everethyng there is to see already and more will be just ruining the "new" of it on release.

 

[Westwall]

Limiting most of the gameplay footage to the first 100 turns was probably meant to keep from revealing too many of the surprises, especially in the mid and late game. I'm sure there's still a huge amount of content we haven't seen.

 

[Louis XXIV]

They said in the very first interviews in April that diplomacy would be pretty much the same as in Civ V. And that was before they'd thought of Favors.

Yeah, I think Civ6 needs to go back to the drawing board, but I'm not shocked that they'd hold off just yet. But I'm going to wait and see if favors makes a difference. It's a little to gamey the way it's implemented (being a literal thing), but it does seem like a good step in the right direction where past cooperation begets future cooperation.

 

[Esperr]

Yeah, I think Civ6 needs to go back to the drawing board, but I'm not shocked that they'd hold off just yet. But I'm going to wait and see if favors makes a difference. It's a little to gamey the way it's implemented (being a literal thing), but it does seem like a good step in the right direction where past cooperation begets future cooperation.

Yes but considering it was Civ V's weakest point(actualy all of the civ games period) you would have thought they would have attempted to make it at leas feel or look different It is exactly the same, all the way down to the button and option layout from what weve seen in the videos so far. Here's to hoping it just place holder for now and not there on release.

 

[Lucius_]

Here's to hoping it just place holder for now and not there on release.

Don't do that. It's not placeholder. Unless these youtuber's are playing a much older build, then everything we see is complete as is, exception of bugs. They are at a point now where nothing is changing between now and release except bug fixes.

 

[Acken]

Civ V diplo AI gets a lot of complaint but it's really not as bad as some want to make it. People are mostly angry that they don't have a 100% readable and manipulable AI. Which sucks just as much in my opinion. Backstabs and non guaranteed friends are cool.

If something was to be truly changed from 5 it actually is this favor system where there was no benefit in 5 to ever help someone.
The other thing that is in need of change is the warmonger system, where the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" should apply a bit more. It's a bit too stupid that when you try to help someone you get a negative diplo modifier for being a warmonger.

Sure the interface is mostly the same which I'm okay with, we'll have to see if they worked a bit on the algorithm though.

 

[Esperr]

Civ V diplo AI gets a lot of complaint but it's really not as bad as some want to make it. People are mostly angry that they don't have a 100% readable and manipulable AI. Which sucks just as much in my opinion. Backstabs and non guaranteed friends are cool.

If something was to be truly changed from 5 it actually is this favor system where there was no benefit in 5 to ever help someone.
The other thing that is in need of change is the warmonger system, where the "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" should apply a bit more. It's a bit too stupid that when you try to help someone you get a negative diplo modifier for being a warmonger.

Sure the interface is mostly the same which I'm okay with, we'll have to see if they worked a bit on the algorithm though.

That was the whole issue with civ V and diplomacy though, the A.I's nevr saw anything in context. They didn't see that you were crippling shaka because hes been pestering everybody for thousands of years, they just see you bulling him and the denouncing you for being a war mongeror. Its annoying being pidgeon holed into either domination victory or something else every game.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yes but considering it was Civ V's weakest point(actualy all of the civ games period)

And that's the point there. Diplomacy has never worked well. Civ3 was the biggest overhaul and we've been essentially building off that model since then. I want a complete change for Civ6, but I think a complete change could go catastrophically wrong as well and would rather Beyond Earth focus on making the science fiction changes worthwhile rather than risk making the more traditional Civ stuff worse when you know it's at least passable as is.

ETA: I have plenty of ideas on what to do in Civ6, many of which involve taking context into account. But this isn't the place for it.

 

[Acken]

That was the whole issue with civ V and diplomacy though, the A.I's nevr saw anything in context. They didn't see that you were crippling shaka because hes been pestering everybody for thousands of years, they just see you bulling him and the denouncing you for being a war mongeror. Its annoying being pidgeon holed into either domination victory or something else every game.

My main point was that the system/interface itself isn't the problem in civ5, it's the code behind it (mainly for the things I pointed, wars).

 

[Krik_IDDQD]

I... I don't understand. It's such a big problem to find one native speaker from 150 million people? Such a big problem to one native speaker from 200 million people!?

They same found a man who speaks extinct Akkadian? So what's a problem here?
I have a buhurt. Two soldiers clashed between to fight on my back perineum and my butt is burning like a thousand suns. I'm flying on nuclear thrust to the stars. SLAVA POKORITELYAM KOSMOSA!

 

[KrikkitTwo]

And that's the point there. Diplomacy has never worked well. Civ3 was the biggest overhaul and we've been essentially building off that model since then. I want a complete change for Civ6, but I think a complete change could go catastrophically wrong as well and would rather Beyond Earth focus on making the science fiction changes worthwhile rather than risk making the more traditional Civ stuff worse when you know it's at least passable as is.

ETA: I have plenty of ideas on what to do in Civ6, many of which involve taking context into account. But this isn't the place for it.

The main reason diplomacy doesn't work well in civ (or most empire builder games) is there is not a Game reason to ultimately cooperate (most of the time)

There is also not a Game reason to 'like' someone

If they could implement those..not AI behavior but Game reasons that apply to diplomacy, that would work well (ie as a human player, I don't want to attack him because According to the game I like him and so attacking him would cause me all sorts of problems.)


Of course a bigger problem is that the AI is terrible at war, and increasing the value of tactics in combat made that worse.

 

[Louis XXIV]

^ My biggest view is a Cassus Belli system. Rather than just go to war, you would need to push both international opinion and domestic opinion in your favor first. The primary thing is to find good reasons to go to war before you do and there are systems in place to either push away from war or push towards it that require effort (and likely would alert your opponent what you're doing).

I... I don't understand. It's such a big problem to find one native speaker from 150 million people? Such a big problem to one native speaker from 200 million people!?

They same found a man who speaks extinct Akkadian? So what's a problem here?

Well, I'm sire the Akkadian speaker wasn't a native speaker either, so that might undercut your point

While I think Ashurbanipal sounded pretty good (Nebuchadnezzar didn't so much speak Akkadian as grunt sounds), I'm not sure a native Amorite would agree with me.

 

[Krik_IDDQD]

Well, I'm sire the Akkadian speaker wasn't a native speaker either, so that might undercut your point

I mean, that to find a person talking on a extinct language (even if not as native) obviously more difficult than one in 150-200 million.