Arioch's Analyst Thread

[Johnny Be]

Arioch,

In Terrain & Terrain Features/Natural Wonders I think the (Crater/Volcano?) you have listed is an old image for the Barringer Crater. Additionally, you have two entries for the The Grand Mesa, one with image and one without.

You'll have a very busy weekend if you want to keep your site updated, with all the latest reviews and screenshots!!

 

[Mustakrakish]

Btw, turn 277 in 730BC, looks like there is an ultra-Marathon speed.

Nice! Very nice. Good catch!

I don't know the likelihood of such an implementation, but I'd love it. Then again, if the time and resources can be spent on new Civs instead, I'd probably prefer that.

Interestingly enough, in this screenshot, the Time Victory also have a checkbox. This could possibly mean that you can switch off time and play until one of the other victory conditions is met without running out of turns ...

Well you can do that in civ4, so why not in civ5...

 

[12agnar0k]

Battleship Update:

Strength - 40
Ranged Strength - 32
Movement - 4
Bombardment Range - 3
Requires - Oil
Advantage - "Indirect Fire" (Can fire somewhere it can't see so long as a friendly can see there)
Disadvantage - Weak against air & submarines

Spoiler :

A nice little update I think, .

.....

The Military overview, in it contains "Unit Supply" it seems like thier is a maximum number of units that you can have built at any one time and this is relative to your number of cities, number of population and "base supply" I would guess is chosen by difficulty level.

Spoiler :

The Economic Overview, You can see all the maths on how you get your net/gross gold income. And what makes up your expenses.

Spoiler :

The Mint Building, It seems this can only be built in cities with gold or silver in thier boundary, and provides +3 gold on each resource, a handy building to make a very rich city even richer .

Spoiler :

 

[beestar]

Argh, why are gold-the-resource and gold-wealth still called the same thing?

Interesting information on the Battleship's 'indirect fire'. Why is this ability necessary? In Civ, if any unit can spot a target, then (e.g.) another fighter or a airship can attack it.

It looks like this is not the case in Civ5. Maybe each unit has a 'visible range' for ranged attacks. (Guess: if you're on higher ground, your visible range increases). If a target is in shooting range but not visible to the shooter, you can't attack it unless you have the 'indirect fire' ability.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Interesting information on the Battleship's 'indirect fire'. Why is this ability necessary?

I suggest it's for fighting submarines. That would be useful if normally you can attack stealth unit only with units seeing them.

 

[12agnar0k]

Argh, why are gold-the-resource and gold-wealth still called the same thing?

Interesting information on the Battleship's 'indirect fire'. Why is this ability necessary? In Civ, if any unit can spot a target, then (e.g.) another fighter or a airship can attack it.

It looks like this is not the case in Civ5. Maybe each unit has a 'visible range' for ranged attacks. (Guess: if you're on higher ground, your visible range increases). If a target is in shooting range but not visible to the shooter, you can't attack it unless you have the 'indirect fire' ability.

All units have always had a visible range, in civ4 it was 1 (the tile your on and 1 tile in each direction) unless you move onto a hill in which case your sight range is 2.
Hence the unit upgrade of sentry.

I just looked at a video and an archer had a sight radius all around it of 2 hexes, so lets just assume this is the standard, (it is likely) then the battle ship will only be able to "see" 2 hexes away, so without a "Sentry" Upgrade like in civ4 to shoot its maximum of 3 hexes distance another unit will have to be closer to the target, so escorting your battleships with destroyers to stand infront of them will do this.

Also we know that hills block bombard range, so if normally a battleship wouldnt be able to shoot over a hill if another unit say on the hill could see the next tile the battleship wants to shoot at again Indirect fire will allow it.

It's a nice ability if you ask me.

As to why has gold got two meanings, thats because it has and both are used in the game .

..........................

Time for some more screen shot analysis.

The great wall being constructed, surely this is the best looking "under construction" wonder that ever existed.

Spoiler :

The Collosus, Info:

+1 Gold to all water tiles in this city (not all cities like in Civ4)
+1 Culture per turn
+1 Great Merchant Point per turn

Must be built in a coastal city

Spoiler :

The Game Concepts, truely any newbie will be able to find out everything they need to know from the Civilopedia, Manual not necessary.

Spoiler :

.....

And another unit update

Lancer,

It is indeed a horseman between knight and calvary, and the stats are correct, but this needs to be added,

"Disadvantage - Penalty to Defense"

From the Civliopedia.

Mounted unit designed to be on the attack, and recieves a combat penalty when on defense. Good for hunting down enemy mounted units

 

[craig123]

Arioch, your victory conditions are missing the Time victory (whoever has the most points when the turn counter runs out) .

Interestingly enough, in this screenshot, the Time Victory also have a checkbox. This could possibly mean that you can switch off time and play until one of the other victory conditions is met without running out of turns ...

The same screenshots also has an advanced option "Max Turns" suggesting the number of turns is configurable.

Did anyone spot the Random Personalities checkbox at the bottom of that screenshot? Wasn't there a debate a while ago about whether leaders should be predictable or not? Looks like everyone will be happy now.

Spoiler :

 

[12agnar0k]

Did anyone spot the Random Personalities checkbox at the bottom of that screenshot? Wasn't there a debate a while ago about whether leaders should be predictable or not? Looks like everyone will be happy now.

Yeah I noticed that along with the other normal options for "customisation" of your Civ experience.

 

[beestar]

All units have always had a visible range, in civ4 it was 1 (the tile your on and 1 tile in each direction) unless you move onto a hill in which case your sight range is 2.
Hence the unit upgrade of sentry.

It's more like Airships in Civ4. Airships can travel 8 tiles in a turn before heading back to base, but they can't see 8 tiles away until they actually do the recon flyover mission. Nor can they strike a unit in that 8 tile radius until it's first been made visible by another unit.

I just looked at a video and an archer had a sight radius all around it of 2 hexes, so lets just assume this is the standard, (it is likely) then the battle ship will only be able to "see" 2 hexes away, so without a "Sentry" Upgrade like in civ4 to shoot its maximum of 3 hexes distance another unit will have to be closer to the target, so escorting your battleships with destroyers to stand infront of them will do this.

This makes a lot of sense.

Also we know that hills block bombard range, so if normally a battleship wouldnt be able to shoot over a hill if another unit say on the hill could see the next tile the battleship wants to shoot at again Indirect fire will allow it.

Ah, I didn't know that hills block bombard. I suppose spies & other non-military units could act as spotters.

 

[12agnar0k]

Ah, I didn't know that hills block bombard. I suppose spies & other non-military units could act as spotters.

Yeah I guess, accept spies aren't in the game, other civilians could though (at thier own risk).

As for "hills block bombard" i'm not happy with that terminology actually, hills work the same for bombard as they do for movement, i.e +1 movement cost if you try to cross, likewise +1 bombard range cost if your shooting over a hill, so a battle ship if next to the hill would be able to shoot 1 tile behind it. (Assumeably, for all I know it may well stop it no matter what your range is)

Hills are only a problem if their is more than one however as you can simply "go around" them. The E3 Video shows this at one point I will take a screen shot...

It's quite hard to see the "where can I bombard lines so I will draw them in on one of the two screen shots, and as you can see he can't aim past the banana's hill, because the hills in the way and all other ways to aim there are 3 hexes in distance.

Now I applogise for the Child Like drawing, I can't call myself a MS Paint Expert

The Original

Spoiler :

If you can't see it all right away look at the Child Like Lines in the next Spoiler to see clearly.

Child Like Lines

Spoiler :

- In Red is the "Range Limits", (Note: These are quite faint in the original)
- In Blue is the "Unreachable (should of been in) Range Limits", (Note: These are ignored on the original)
- In Yellow is the "Attackable Units in the Range Limits", (Note: they are encircled with the same border colour as the "Range Limits" in the original)

Anyway so there you go, , Some of us picked up on that fact when the E3 video came out and posted it somewhere on this forumn. It's quite tricky to spot that though .


......................................................

And now for a long long list of Screen Shot Analysis, I've gone over 100 new screenshots courtesy of Azziel I think. And picked up on soem of the important parts over my last few posts here.

First of all, the Great People. And thier abilities, thanks Civilopedia.

Great Scientist

Spoiler :

Great Artist

Spoiler :

Great Engineer

Spoiler :

Great Merchant

Spoiler :

Great General

Spoiler :

......

Utopia Project

Spoiler :

Note: this game winning wonder is cheaper than the infamous Giant Death Robot which doesn't win you anything.

Manhatten Project

Spoiler :

Note: This time around, building this only gives your civ access to Atom Bombs and Nuclear Missiles, instead of everyone. Go Nuclear Advantage Go.

Apollo Programme

Spoiler :

Full Building List

Spoiler :

No Individual Details, but a full list of buildings all the same

Comprehensive Unit Promotions List

Spoiler :

Unfortunately its missing a few Unit Attributes so its not a "full list" but the majority of it is there, and again no specifics just the titles.

Terrain and Features Full List - Including Natural Wonders

Spoiler :

Improvements Full List

Spoiler :

A few less normal improvements than Civ4 maybe... but the Great leaders tile improvements make up for that I guess.

 

[GoodSarmatian]

Full Building List

Spoiler :

No Individual Details, but a full list of buildings all the same

Huh,I'm suprised the Satrap's Court is in the renaissance. I initially thougth it would be a courthouse replacement.

 

[snipperrabbit!!]

Some costs on units :

Catapult 100
Chariot Archer 60
Spearman 50
Archer 70
Scout 25
Warrior 40
Battlesheep 300
Lancer 220
Horseman 90

 

[Algeroth]

Huh,I'm suprised the Satrap's Court is in the renaissance. I initially thougth it would be a courthouse replacement.

Yes, me too. I also thought that burial tomb will be replacment for monument, now i don't have i clue what it will replace. But it seems that developers don't want to have more than one UU for each building. In that case:

Bazaar - Market (what a suprise)
Floating Gardens - Granary
Paper Maker - could be library or water mill.
Burial Tomb - circus? Colloseum?I don't know.
Mughal Fort - castle
Longhouse - courthouse
Satrap's Court - I don't know.
Krepost - barracks?
Wat - monastery
Mud Pyramid Mosque - temple

 

[Seek]

Anyone else notice that from this screenshot (http://www.jeuxvideo.com/screenshots/images/00036/00036154_027.htm) Freedom is not compatible with Autocracy, but in the IGN preview at 1:57 the mouseover of Liberty shows *that* SP as incompatible? Arioch has "Freedom" listed on his page, but I think Liberty might make more sense, as it is above Autocracy, and Piety is above Rationalism in the mirror position. Anybody know what's up here?

 

[bjbrains]

Anyone else notice that from this screenshot (http://www.jeuxvideo.com/screenshots/images/00036/00036154_027.htm) Freedom is not compatible with Autocracy, but in the IGN preview at 1:57 the mouseover of Liberty shows *that* SP as incompatible? Arioch has "Freedom" listed on his page, but I think Liberty might make more sense, as it is above Autocracy, and Piety is above Rationalism in the mirror position. Anybody know what's up here?

I'm pretty sure that both Liberty and Freedom are incompatible with Autocracy. Which makes sense really.
Also, paper maker is almost certainly courthouse (There's a screenshot that shows writing with the science advisor, with no courthouse, but with paper maker.
Krepost was confirmed in the gamespot article (I think) to be barracks.

 

[Algeroth]

I'm pretty sure that both Liberty and Freedom are incompatible with Autocracy. Which makes sense really.

Yes, i thinks that this is the case

Also, paper maker is almost certainly courthouse (There's a screenshot that shows writing with the science advisor, with no courthouse, but with paper maker.

But that would give Chinese the courthouse one era earlier than to rest civs. And it makes little sense, tbh.

 

[Seek]

I'm pretty sure that both Liberty and Freedom are incompatible with Autocracy. Which makes sense really.

True, but I wonder if the autocracy line will be worth losing two other lines for. Guess it would depend on how harsh the penalty is for switching between them (between times of war and peace, say).

 

[12agnar0k]

IF you can switch between them, I dont know if its been confirmed that you can, their doesn't seem to be a "switch" button on the page.

.......................

Mt Everest - If you thought a 2 Hex wide Natural Wonder was impressive just take a look at this beamouth!, Not sure how big it is because of the fog, but if we assume its just the ice peak mountain then its 5 tiles big with some mountains below it but not part of the wonder, OR, all of the mountain range could be part of the wonder.

Odd how you will be able to get citizens to "work" the tallest mountain of the world but not pesky small little mountains.

Spoiler :

 

[bjbrains]

I guess it can't be the courthouse, now I'm just curious about what it replaces. As to Autocracy, it gives benefits for military support which will probably be almost essential for later-game conquest.
Also, some stuff from the Giant Bomb video:
Ironclad: Move 4, str 25, ranged attack 18, cannot go in ocean, requires 1 coal
Carrier is a unit: Move 5, str 20, can carry up to 3 aircraft, requires 1 oil
Minuteman and Landsknechts have the same base stats as their normal units, but Minutemen come with at least 1 (I think two) promotions, and Landsknechts must have some kind of additional bonus (probably versus melee like Civ 4).

 

[Windsor]

But that would give Chinese the courthouse one era earlier than to rest civs. And it makes little sense, tbh.

In Civ4 Sumeria got courthouse @ priesthood, much earlier than code of law.

I suspect courthouses to be fairly expensive(like in Civ4) both in hammers and in maintenance cost so your going to pay for that help with unhappiness.