Armageddon Redux?

Renaud

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I recently completed a game as Sheaim in which I precipitated armageddon. I found the results underwhelming. Some of this is of course because I prepared by making sure I had few living units, promoting my archmages to liches, etc, prior to hitting 90 and 100 AC. The effect on other civs was more pronounced.

The current AC100 doesn't really give me that good old 'end-of-the-world' feeling. The horsemen and avatar of rage are definitely annoying to those who are unfortunate enough to have them appear nearby, but ultimately easy to pick off, giving you another nice magic weapon, especially if you have death mana.

Would anyone prefer an armageddon that is truly world-ending? This could be in the form of a chronic affliction or cataclysm, such as a progressive version of the plague which hits players at AC30 (the AC100 version would progressively increase over time rather than decrease as does the AC30 version).

Is it possible to update a certain xml file to modify armageddon, increasing or rearranging the various events associated with AC? Idea for a truly catastrophic AC100, replacing the current AC100 effects:

1. Firestrorms, plague and other disasters destroys 60% of ALL units (living and otherwise). This could result in additional destruction of units carried in ships which are destroyed (also hawks in rangers, etc.). This affects all civs except Hyborem and Mercurians.

2. All 4 horsemen resurrect simultaneously at random places (if not still in game), with 50% of ALL surviving units (from 1. above) immediately converting to their side (barb). To prevent 2 copies of horsemen weapons in the game, suggest that previously looted weapons from horsemen appearing in AC40-70 immediately disappear (reclaimed by their rightful owners at AC100).

3. re-inflict AC30 plague, but invert the decrease into a progressive increase over time. This will of course ultimately result in de-population and destruction of all cities (cities should be able to starve to 0 population - i haven't actually checked if that's currently possible). The last player with a surviving city would be the defacto 'winner'. This plague would affect all civs cities except Hyborem and Mercurian, meaning that either hyborem or mercurian are certain to be the 'winner' unless they can be destroyed quickly. In any case, at AC100 the world is doomed to end either as an empty wasteland, as a new level of hell (if hyborem is in game and triumphs), or remade as a new world (if mercurian is in game and triumphs).

While i'm not completely familiar with FFH2 lore, it should be clear that in this proposed version of Armageddon, AC100 is truly Ragnarok/Apocalypse: the final battle before the remaking of creation. As an afterthought, since it has no game effect, once AC100 is reached, the AC should be pegged at 100 - I noticed AC moved back and forth depending on game events after I reached 100 even though the event effects remained and could not be reversed.
 
I like Renaud's Idea. In addition, Im up for 4 horseman either belonging to Infernal, or barbs having capital, and horsemen being immortal. Or at least gain immortality at this 100 rezurrection.
Also itd might be neat if all volcanos go off like nukes, with fallout being replaced (texture/color) by "lava" which does exact same thing, but cant be removed muahaha (maybe dissapears slowly, turning into grassland maybe? or broken lands?
 
As Renaud said, horsemen are too easy to kill, if they don't show up in the early stage.

One reason is that they don't take rest enough to restore their full strength after combat. So usually,
right after they attacked one of my fortified cities, they are vulerable.

Hope some improvement..:)
 
A reverse genesis spell would be nice. I've also thought that a global spread of hell terrain would be appropriate, but I understand that that is rather processor intensive and likely to crash the game on many computers. I suppose that would be one way to make it the end of the world. :lol:
Sadly, there have been a good number of posts about Armageddon. Many had great ideas which seemed well liked, but nothing has really changed. The AC was tweaked with a bit, Horsemen have been given a little more survivability (came around the time they got their weapons), but the final bang of Armageddon is still a "meh" event.
Sigh...
 
Reverse genesis and immortal horsemen are both great ideas. Ah well. I understand this has been hashed over a zillion times probably, so my posting this thread is like warming over moldy leftovers.

Hell terrain is actually not all that bad, and the good players don't have to worry about it anyway...it can produce a lot of food, enough to support cities large enough to work all the necessary shield producing tiles to spew forth a large number of units. In my aforementioned game, the entire planet (large map) was converted to hell terrain, hehe. Only 3 evil civs and 1 neutral were left at the end, with all the evils reduced to my vassals (I killed hyborem but left a few infernal cities around).
 
I remember I had the same idea, but it wasn't listened.
Here is my old post:

I think it's too easy to have an AC100. It shouldn't be a common event. "Oh, I razed a city and accidentally triggered Apocalypse... " And 20 turns later, it's like nothing happened.

- It should be hard to increase the AC >90. Any change should be halved, or even divided by 10.
- Hellish terrain should start spreading on Good lands.
- A very severe blight should strike everyone, and this blight shouldn't wear off while the AC remains above 90. So everyone's population would slowly be decreased, everyone's units would slowly die.
- AC 95: The event called 'Apocalypse' (even though it doesn't look like Apocalypse) in vanilla Ffh would occur (60% of the living units killed, population halved), but it would be only the beginning.
- AC 100 the REAL Apocalypse: Hellish terrain everywhere, with appropriate music in order to make it more terrifying.
Also, each turn with AC 100 would kill 3 units out of 4 (no matter if they are living or not), raze 1 city out of 3, destroy 1 improvement out of 2. Each turn of Apocalypse would add +5% chance of victory for the Sheaim.
 
1234567890 - your system is good as well, if even more terrifying.

The only thing I would add is that the infernals and mercurians should be unaffected, so that if these civs are in the game, they will ultimately be battling between themselves over the husk of a dying world. If Infernals win, the world becomes another level of Hell. If Mercurians win, the world is remade (start a new civ game, hehe). If neither are in the game, the world simply perishes as a lifeless hulk, with the last civ standing the 'winner' - a pyrrhic victory of course.
 
To answer your question about whether a city can starve to zero.... the answer is no.... nor can it be feasted upon by vampires until there is no population.... the only way to drop the pop to zero is to raze the city....
 
Kyroshill,

Ah yes, true. Nor can Eater's of Dreams drop the city to 0. I do believe that conquering a size 1 city automatically razes it due to the 1 pop loss - true/false?

In any case, I would guess this can't be moded, so my proposal would just result in all cities eventually reduced to collections of pop 1 diseased hovels, never able to grow, and defended only by your remaining 20% of forces (after the 60% killed followed by 20% converting to barb). It would be only a matter of time before the resurrected 4 horsemen razed every single city, or you were crushed by the unaffected infernals/mercurian civs (if they are in game).

As it is now, the 'Armageddon Counter' should probably be renamed the IC (Inconvenience Counter).

Last thought: a world-ending version of armageddon could be made a selectable option ("Apocalyptic Armageddon" or somesuch).
 
Ah yes, true. Nor can Eater's of Dreams drop the city to 0. I do believe that conquering a size 1 city automatically razes it due to the 1 pop loss - true/false?

Only if it had no cultural expansion. If it had, it doesn't get raised. Just conquered with no population change.

As it is now, the 'Armageddon Counter' should probably be renamed the IC (Inconvenience Counter).

Ha, it's true. I'm making the change in text files already.
 
I do believe that conquering a size 1 city automatically razes it due to the 1 pop loss - true/false?
I think it's the same as vanilla: cities that have never reached 2 pop get razed, but cities that have been over 1 in the past and dropped back to 1 remain at 1. I imagine they designed it that way to prevent backwards incentives on cities with significant buildings.

It should be hard to increase the AC >90. Any change should be halved, or even divided by 10.
That seems unnecessarily complicated. If you want the stretch of time between events at that stage to be longer, then you might as well factor it in and space them out appropriately; you can get the same functional equivalent without adding another layer of obfuscation to the game mechanics.
 
I like Renaud's version, except for the 3rd option. I like my cities! Plus, the Sidar would be much less affected by this.
 
I like Renaud's version, except for the 3rd option. I like my cities! Plus, the Sidar would be much less affected by this.

I believe that even shades can starve to death. So if there is no Elohim to lower the counter, you all are screwed
 
They can?

(Edit: I assumed it was impossible to reduce city size to 0, so if it were to come to be a battle among size 1 cities, the Sidar win)
 
They can?

(Edit: I assumed it was impossible to reduce city size to 0, so if it were to come to be a battle among size 1 cities, the Sidar win)

Well hey can be stabbed to death, poisoned to death, burned to death, dipped in acid until death, get hit with a hammer til death, split apart til death, shot to death, electrocuted til death, chopped to death, bit to death, slashed to death, fall from a cliff to death, digested to death, stepped on to death, so I think they can starve to death too
 
I always thought there should be civ-specific victories since some of the leaders have very specific objectives. The Sheiam leader's goals seem to be to end existence. Increasing the AV counter to 100 doesn't seem to do it. I mean, if Tebryn Abandi wins a conquest victory, how does that really help him?

These specific victories should be very difficult to attain (but would make nice trophies.) For example:
* Mercurians - raze every AV city before winning
* Hyborem - raze every other holy city before winning
* Sheiam - win the game with the AC at 100
* Khazad - gain access to every resource (except mana) in the game
* Amurites - control at least one of each mana type with a tower victory
* Illians - win the game after ascending Auric
* Doviello - win the game despite the Illians having ascended Auric
* Grigori - win an altar victory (heh heh)

Just shots in the dark...
 
The armageddon should have more impact on terrain. Hell terrain spreading everywhere and volcanoes erupting as suggested would be great, but also land should rise and subside into sea (not city tiles, even though that'd be alright too thematically). Also, in general, hell terrain shouldn't always cause deforestation but instead occasionally turn the forest into a twisted "darkwood" spawning foul creatures (tar demons, manticores, spectres, skeletons, wraiths... tigers? =p ) and having a high defense bonus but a negative healing rate. A darkwood would have to be cleared or burnt down.

Sheaim's Worldbreak should have some similar worldwide effects as armageddon but not wipe away 60% of living units when cast at AC100.
 
I dont think that the armageddon should kill your population, but rather just open the gates to hell. Its not fun to have your beloved units convert to barbarians either but rather to have them fight hordes of very strong demons each turn. I think theres already at AC 70 an event that spawns those breeding pits for demons. But honestly they are way too weak. Make them spawn at AC 100 and more frequently like every turn or so. Then make them equal to tier 4 units so that you really have to fight evil with your lives. If they would spawn a boss demon like those from the dungeons with free promotion every other turn would be awesome too :). That would really give the feel of an epic fight of humans vs. hell.
 
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