ARMENIA - A True Civilization

[Tigranes]

I would love to see Armenia as a "city state" (as Dvin or Artashat), but I am sure it won't happen. Too many other real famous historical city states out there! As far as a Civilization, I would not even like it. Safe for the guy on my Avatar we never conquered anyone and I am proud about that Would like to see it in the game either.

 

[Tigranes]

I thinkt he OP is honestly exaggerating Armenia's influence on world history.

Also, if you read about the Armenian gnocide, they asked for more then half of Turkey's land when they rebelled, and when the Turks tried to move them they died en masse.

I have read many strange misconceptions but not this one

We were not in the position to demand LAND, nor do we rebelled during 1915. They did what they did because they could. Conscripted men, gave them no weapon, shot and drawn them instead, sent women and children, "guarded" by the looters and murderers into the desert without food and water for a sure death. Wanted to get rid of the "Armenian Question" the West was bugging Turkey for a long time: no Armenians -- no Question!

ARABS did rebel and took half of Turkish lands during the WW1, perhaps you are confusing Arabs with Armenians Apart from the first two letters we got nothing in common with that Civ.

10 out 10 serious scholars, including all the honest Turks themselves, would just eek like me on your comment.

 

[Le Sage]

What's the bleeding fuss about? If you don't get your favourite civ in the initial release (and many of us won't), you just mod it in.

 

[Panjandrum]

Armenia is an unlikely inclusion, but certainly more worthy than the Zulu. If they're not included as a City State, adding them should be easy enough.

 

[President]

Armenia is an unlikely inclusion, but certainly more worthy than the Zulu. If they're not included as a City State, adding them should be easy enough.

Now, I don't agree with that. Shaka the King of the Zulus was essentially the only African before European colonialism to make the British and the other colonial powers shudder in their boots. He was essentially the most powerful African during the slavery-colonial period, and they basically constituted the majority of South Africa today. Nobody can truthfully say that South Africa isn't one of the major countries, at least in Africa, can they?

 

[Tigernose]

Listen we are trying to tell you Armenia won't cut it as a civilization, maybe a city state, they are too little known and they never played a big role in the development of civilization, even if you can argue that they did, the main determinant for a civilization to make it into a game is for them to be well known, people aren't gonna buy a game with civilizations nobody heard about, and the point of this game is to make a profit, maybe you can make it into a mod, it can probably be a good city state, but it's not gonna be a civilization, I can tell you're one of those people that don't listen to reason when you have your mind set on something so it's probably useless to argue but it's not gonna be a civilization deal with it

No no, I was fearing people would think that. I understand that Civilization is for notability, but I'm saying that Armenia should at least be in an expansion, or now that you mentioned it, a city-state.

 

[KIEJ.MANIK]

No no, I was fearing people would think that. I understand that Civilization is for notability, but I'm saying that Armenia should at least be in an expansion, or now that you mentioned it, a city-state.

Yeah I think it would be a good city state, in Civ 5 the way you treat a city state affects what the other civilizations think about you, and the ottoman genocide of armenia had effects like that

 

[Tigernose]

I hope they incorporate some more significant, yet maybe less-known city states in Civilization V.

 

[Le Sage]

No worries. There will be Downloadable Content. For a fee you will be able to download Firaxis-made civs and extra stuff. It's all the latest rage

 

[MrHan]

Eh. Based on what the OP says, it's a close call IMO.
Two questions:
1. Has armenia been a sovereign state for the majority of the last two millenia?
2. Has armenia been known to China or Korea (ie the Far East) before the 16th century?
if the answer is yes to both questions, then I say firaxis should consider for an expansion. If no... then i'm sorry.

Btw, I'd love to see the minority represented in Civ 5 by the means of city states. Maybe I'll finally get to see the Manchus in Civ for once..

 

[Tigernose]

Eh. Based on what the OP says, it's a close call IMO.
Two questions:
1. Has armenia been a sovereign state for the majority of the last two millenia?
2. Has armenia been known to China or Korea (ie the Far East) before the 16th century?
if the answer is yes to both questions, then I say firaxis should consider for an expansion. If no... then i'm sorry.

Btw, I'd love to see the minority represented in Civ 5 by the means of city states. Maybe I'll finally get to see the Manchus in Civ for once..

Of course. You could say it's been a state for the last 3000 years, a little like how the Ancient Egyptians differed from the Egyptians during the Roman era. Armenia was called Ararat during 1000BC - 700BC, and is now the name of a mountain.

 

[Thormodr]

Eh. Based on what the OP says, it's a close call IMO.
Two questions:
1. Has armenia been a sovereign state for the majority of the last two millenia?
2. Has armenia been known to China or Korea (ie the Far East) before the 16th century?
if the answer is yes to both questions, then I say firaxis should consider for an expansion. If no... then i'm sorry.

Btw, I'd love to see the minority represented in Civ 5 by the means of city states. Maybe I'll finally get to see the Manchus in Civ for once..

Considering that the Mongols conquered both Armenia and China and Korea and that they encouraged trade on a grand scale along with many people from the Middle East coming to China, it is entirely likely that Chinese and Korean people would have been aware of Armenia in the thirteenth century.

 

[702]

I just don't think Armenia is important enough to really warrant being in an expansion pack (especially considering the likes of Spain, Korea, the Mayas, any Native American civ, Carthage, etc...).
So I wouldn't get your hopes up. But I'd welcome an Armenian mod. I think if I were you I'd think about what I'd what it to consist of, who would be the leader, what would their characteristics, UUs and UBs, etc...

Notably, in 300 BC, armenia became the first state to adopt Christianity

But then perhaps I've underestimated the Armenians, they appear to be the first civ to have developed time travel!

 

[Zirk]

Come on, i don't have much knowledge in History, but those requests of [INSERT UNKNOWN CIV HERE] are ridiculous.

At least, if the goal of Civ or Civ5 was to simulate the creation of the different countries, with a whole lot of variables such as civs collapses, I would say every civ worth to be represented. But as the game is now, I don't see the point to put civs other than the most known ones, just because Civ is a grand public game.

The civs that are spoken about the more often in TV and books deserve to be in Civ, because they are just fascinating. Is Armenia fascinating or remarkable? In what?

So you're basically saying you like having history dictated to you by the media. You don't actually care about facts or reality, right? I wouldn't be surprised if you're one of those westerners who thinks Arabs/Asians were barbarians who were lucky to be enlightened by their European conquerors.

 

[Naokaukodem]

I wouldn't be surprised if you're one of those westerners who thinks Arabs/Asians were barbarians who were lucky to be enlightened by their European conquerors.

Actually I think God bless Charles Martel who stopped those barbarians at Poitiers in 732.

So you're basically saying you like having history dictated to you by the media. You don't actually care about facts or reality, right?

Facts or reality as you say keep to be obscure even if we have data about them, because they are so numerous that it becomes difficult to keep a clear track of them. The people through the media, as you say, that asccomplished a hard work of vulgarisation and grasp over some times of History are the ones who deserve to be in Civ. People won't buy a game full of civilizations they never heard anything about.

 

[Charles Martel]

Armenia is one my favourite choices when I play Paradox games set in the ancient era.

Here's an Armenia mod for Civ4:
http://civilization4.filefront.com/file/Armenia;67770

Leaders: Vartan Mamikonian, Emperor Tigranes, General Andranik, King Drtad
UU: Armenian Legionary (Swordsman) Strength 8, can go through peaks, has 10% withdrawal chance cost increased to 70
UB: Shoogah (Market) adds one happy and one health (Armenian food )
Added civilopedia text, Armenian Legionary reskin added, Vartan Diplomacy added, Flag decal fixed, custom music for Vartan and Drtad, all civilopedia entries added, all diplomacy added, favorite civics fixed

 

[702]

Actually I think God bless Charles Martel who stopped those barbarians at Poitiers in 732.

Speak of the devil!

 

[Tigernose]

I just don't think Armenia is important enough to really warrant being in an expansion pack (especially considering the likes of Spain, Korea, the Mayas, any Native American civ, Carthage, etc...).
So I wouldn't get your hopes up. But I'd welcome an Armenian mod. I think if I were you I'd think about what I'd what it to consist of, who would be the leader, what would their characteristics, UUs and UBs, etc...



But then perhaps I've underestimated the Armenians, they appear to be the first civ to have developed time travel!

Hahaha, my mistake... 300 AD. Imagine time travel as a tech in Civ... just going back in time with your SAM infantry and nukes, and destroying everybody.

 

[Albatoonoe]

Honestly, as much as an influence they are, we don't see everyone we like. We don't see Prussians, Danes, or Swiss. Hell, we don't ever see Italy because we have Rome. It's just a matter of the civilization being surpassed by others in importance, or at least popularity. Sorry, but I don't think Armenia is going to make it in.

I'd love to see the Danes, too...

 

[Tigernose]

I just don't get how they could miss them as a city-state. Or even a mention. In fact, nobody's even made a Civ of Week of Armenia. I'm suprised, considering Mitanni was a Civ of the Week and they were a crucial part of Armenian history.