Armies of the Dark Ages

Yeah if you could make a Sparabara unit (see image) if your up for it.. ive added the Sparabara for Persia in my mod but im using the normal Persian spearmen...
 

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I am planning to make one once I figure out how to use scene viewer. I think someone made an ok Sparabara and I believe sakhr made a persian spearman or axeman.
 
I just added my Byzantine Comitatenses. I think I did a good job on it, but please offer comments.
 
A shader probably would make it look a bit better. I've been thinking about doing some Vandal Noble Cavalry or Vandal SPearmen or finishing my Archers Auxillia.
 
I added a late Roman heavy cavalry unit. I think this is one of my better units yet.
 
a note- a cataphract ala would have looked significantly different then the cavalryman you've put up. Thats not to say you havent done a wonderful Job (Indeed, you have!) only that if its a cataphract you're looking to make, you wont find the ingredients to make it by looking at the barbarian auxiliaries. ;)
 
I didnt set out to make a cataphract. Rome fielded heavy cavalry besdies cataphracts alot (Scholae Palatina, Vexelatio, Byzantium Fielded Comitatus and Foederati heavy cavalry). The cataphracts only really started being used in the east and west right around after Julian the Apostate. They sort of went away after the reign of Heraclius but were reinvented by Nikephorus Phokas.
Rome actualy did use 'barbarians', eg Goths, Isaurians, Germans, ect, in their armies as Foederati. Since cataphracts were the 'elite' units (like the Praetorian Guard), it was best to have barbarians in them so there was less of a chance of them revolting against you. I might try and make a cataphract later, but I'm probably going to make some more roman cavalry (eqites sagitarii) or some Persian/Middle East cavalry.
 
I finished a Germanic Noble Spearmen. My next unit will probably be a Early Byzantine Infantryman, a Skutatoi. If someone has a request or would like me to redo a specific Gothic unit, I'll do that.
 
which kfm do I need for the spearman? the original spearman.kfm is not working properly.
 
Which spearman? The Gothic Freeman spearman needs the Greek Phalanx animation, and I think the other ones use the normal spearman animation.
 
the phalanx uses spearman.kfm

PHP: 
			<Type>ART_DEF_UNIT_GREEK_PHALANX</Type>
			<Button>,Art/Interface/Buttons/Units/Spearman.dds,Art/Interface/Buttons/Unit_Resource_Atlas.dds,1,5</Button>
			<fScale>0.44</fScale>
			<fInterfaceScale>1.0</fInterfaceScale>
			<bActAsLand>0</bActAsLand>
			<bActAsAir>0</bActAsAir>
			<NIF>Art/Units/Spearman/Spearman.nif</NIF>
			<KFM>Art/Units/Spearman/Spearman.kfm</KFM>

therefore I tried spearman.kfm but this was not working.
 
That was changed with BTS, it uses the old greek phalanx animation from warlords and vanilla.
 
Ajidica said:
I didnt set out to make a cataphract. Rome fielded heavy cavalry besdies cataphracts alot (Scholae Palatina, Vexelatio, Byzantium Fielded Comitatus and Foederati heavy cavalry). The cataphracts only really started being used in the east and west right around after Julian the Apostate. They sort of went away after the reign of Heraclius but were reinvented by Nikephorus Phokas.
Rome actualy did use 'barbarians', eg Goths, Isaurians, Germans, ect, in their armies as Foederati. Since cataphracts were the 'elite' units (like the Praetorian Guard), it was best to have barbarians in them so there was less of a chance of them revolting against you. I might try and make a cataphract later, but I'm probably going to make some more roman cavalry (eqites sagitarii) or some Persian/Middle East cavalry.
Click to expand...

I rather disagree with this assessment; for starters, the 'Schola Palantina' was a unit - a 'regiment' if you will that had a particular name, along with several other 'Tagmata' regiments to have the same - its not a type of soldier at all, though they were, to the best of my knowledge comrpised of mostly if not exculsivly heavy cavalry. a 'Vexelatio' isn't a unit either, persay, but again the name for squadron of cavalry - but with no clarification as to just what sort of cavalry it is.


Secondly, the date of Julian the Apostates' reign began in 361 (and ended the next year) - but the first distinct use of heavy cavalry begin in the time of Trajan, the word 'Cataphract' frist comes into use under Hadrian - and there are even earlier murmuring as Josephus mentions kontos (heavy lancers, rather then the normal javelin using cavalry) in the Judean war of Vespasian, and certainly by the crisis of the third century heavy cavalry have become important, not only militarily, but in terms of prestige - as early as the 250's you have Gallienus establishing units of cavalry corps based at major cross road outposts in order to serve as mobile reserves for the army (and here you can see the very beginning of the border guard/field army system of Diocletian and Constantine in some respects) and in the wake of Gallienus you have have the usurper Aureolus attempting to sieze power not from a position of provincial governor or Legionary army commander, but as a man whos at the head of these cavalry reserves - and indeed the next two full emperors, Claudius and Aurelian are both cavalry commanders themselves as well, the latter being recoded as using Clibinarii (a very heavy type of cavalry indeed) against the Palmyran rebels, though the winning cavalry tactic in those wars was with the use of light horsemen.

However, trying to relegate Roman heavy cavalry to Julian and beyond is a mistake, just as much as trying to make them Barbarians.

Were barbarians used? Sure they were - though as a specific example, the Isaurians you mention weren't barbarians at all, but rather a Hellenized people from south Anatolia who had a reputation that we well might associate with the term 'Red neck' today; hardly barbarians, even if not quite the most cosmopolitan inhabitants of the Empire.

The use of barbarian foederati is a complex one however, and its still not entirely understood in detail, but its safe to assume that even if very large formations and elements of the armies came from barbarians, where was a similar proportion of troops who originated from the Romanized or Hellenized provinces of the Empire, and that these soldiers would have a presence in all levels and unit types present, out side of those exclusively federated and based around a non Roman ethnicity. The time of Justinian is particularly interesting, as it is about this time that Barbarian mercenary use was at its height - having been the cause of the fall of the Western Empire, but in the east you see Generals procuring barbarian forces use on campaign, but the retention of cavalry corps in the capital manned not only by native Romans - but by the local aristocracy of Constantinople itself.

To summarize it shortly - the Romans and Byzantines were major users of all potential forces at their disposal, even if the leadership then provided was often dismal, these forces included all manner of soldier, both citizen and barbarian, and the forms either of these took could, and did manifest itself in just about any military roll you might think of for either.
 
Xen said:
I rather disagree with this assessment; for starters, the 'Schola Palantina' was a unit - a 'regiment' if you will that had a particular name, along with several other 'Tagmata' regiments to have the same - its not a type of soldier at all, though they were, to the best of my knowledge comrpised of mostly if not exculsivly heavy cavalry. a 'Vexelatio' isn't a unit either, persay, but again the name for squadron of cavalry - but with no clarification as to just what sort of cavalry it is.


Secondly, the date of Julian the Apostates' reign began in 361 (and ended the next year) - but the first distinct use of heavy cavalry begin in the time of Trajan, the word 'Cataphract' frist comes into use under Hadrian - and there are even earlier murmuring as Josephus mentions kontos (heavy lancers, rather then the normal javelin using cavalry) in the Judean war of Vespasian, and certainly by the crisis of the third century heavy cavalry have become important, not only militarily, but in terms of prestige - as early as the 250's you have Gallienus establishing units of cavalry corps based at major cross road outposts in order to serve as mobile reserves for the army (and here you can see the very beginning of the border guard/field army system of Diocletian and Constantine in some respects) and in the wake of Gallienus you have have the usurper Aureolus attempting to sieze power not from a position of provincial governor or Legionary army commander, but as a man whos at the head of these cavalry reserves - and indeed the next two full emperors, Claudius and Aurelian are both cavalry commanders themselves as well, the latter being recoded as using Clibinarii (a very heavy type of cavalry indeed) against the Palmyran rebels, though the winning cavalry tactic in those wars was with the use of light horsemen.

However, trying to relegate Roman heavy cavalry to Julian and beyond is a mistake, just as much as trying to make them Barbarians.

Were barbarians used? Sure they were - though as a specific example, the Isaurians you mention weren't barbarians at all, but rather a Hellenized people from south Anatolia who had a reputation that we well might associate with the term 'Red neck' today; hardly barbarians, even if not quite the most cosmopolitan inhabitants of the Empire.

The use of barbarian foederati is a complex one however, and its still not entirely understood in detail, but its safe to assume that even if very large formations and elements of the armies came from barbarians, where was a similar proportion of troops who originated from the Romanized or Hellenized provinces of the Empire, and that these soldiers would have a presence in all levels and unit types present, out side of those exclusively federated and based around a non Roman ethnicity. The time of Justinian is particularly interesting, as it is about this time that Barbarian mercenary use was at its height - having been the cause of the fall of the Western Empire, but in the east you see Generals procuring barbarian forces use on campaign, but the retention of cavalry corps in the capital manned not only by native Romans - but by the local aristocracy of Constantinople itself.

To summarize it shortly - the Romans and Byzantines were major users of all potential forces at their disposal, even if the leadership then provided was often dismal, these forces included all manner of soldier, both citizen and barbarian, and the forms either of these took could, and did manifest itself in just about any military roll you might think of for either.
Click to expand...

I think you should look at the date of the post above yours.;) This topic has been dead for well over a year.
 
Xen said:
I rather disagree with this assessment; for starters, the 'Schola Palantina' was a unit - a 'regiment' if you will that had a particular name, along with several other 'Tagmata' regiments to have the same - its not a type of soldier at all, though they were, to the best of my knowledge comrpised of mostly if not exculsivly heavy cavalry. a 'Vexelatio' isn't a unit either, persay, but again the name for squadron of cavalry - but with no clarification as to just what sort of cavalry it is.
<snip>
Click to expand...

What do you think of the modeling of the Roman Army in RFRE? Specifically the Vexellatio. My implementation is based on this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vexillatio

In game terms the Vexillatio is the first decent cavalry available to the Roman, by which I mean a unit that moves 2, is UNITCOMBAT_CAVALRY, and has enough power to warrant the +5gpt additional cost (ie the same upkeep as an Imperial Legion, but 2 moves instead of 1, can retreat, and can stand up to the Persian cavalry, unlike the heavy infantry). They are only available during the 3rd century, after which they are replaced with the Eques Legionaires (which itself is an abstract unit..). The Eques Legionaires is stronger, but more importantly can enslave enemy units. Along with the Comitatenses, this is the mechanism to recruit most of the random slew of barbarian units which joined the Roman Army. Only the Batavii Alae can be built, and then only in certain cities along the Germanic frontier.
 
Ooh, I think I'll use these!
 
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