Army based small wonders0worht it?

[splunge the 2nd]

I'm still muddling through my 1rst Emporer game and managed to get myself 3 armies and my populace wants to build Heroic Epic, Milatary Academy and The Pentagon.
Any opinions as to their value? I assume you wouldn't want both Heroic Epic and Milatary Academy as they're somewhat redundant. Can you start them in a war mobilization economy?

EditArdon my typos in the title

 

[Aabraxan]

I don't use mobilization enough to answer that question comfortably, so I'll leave it alone.

The HE, MA and Pent . . . I build them in almost every game. All of them. HE increases the chances of getting a leader and can be available as soon as you get a victorious army. That's much earlier than the MA. In addition to letting you build armies, you can put the MA in your capital & use armies as 400-shield prebuilds for wonders. As for the Pentagon, well, 4-unit armies can't be shipped overseas until transports, but that's the only drawback that comes to mind. Otherwise, the extra unit in the armies is nice.

 

[TheOverseer714]

You want them all, they are not redundant. The Heroic Epic increases the odds of getting more military great leaders. The Military Academy allows you to build new armies and makes your armies more effective. The Pentagon allows you to put 4 units into an army, which makes them stronger. Build the Military Academy in your capital, so that you can use armies as wonder pre-builds. The others can be built wherever you need a small amount of culture or in your 20k culture city.

 

[Spoonwood]

Build all three of them... both warmongers and builders pretty much agree here that you want to build them all.

 

[AutomatedTeller]

I do not remember if you can start them while mobilized - there is an article in the war academy on mobilization which can give you that information. I'd definitely build them, unless you are nearing the end of the game.

 

[Chamnix]

I very rarely build the Heroic Epic except in 20K games. The others I build only if the game is going to be competitive for a while after Military Tradition - generally for high level games on larger than standard maps.

 

[Spoonwood]

I stand corrected. Although, I have a feeling Chamnix would recommend them usually... he just plays so well that he doesn't need that many armies or leaders to win.

 

[splunge the 2nd]

Sounds like we have a consensus! Full speed ahead.

By the way for any lurkers here's the link to the War Academy article on mobilization http://www.civfanatics.com/civ3/strategy/mobilization.php

 

[TheOverseer714]

Weeell, Chamnix is a different breed of civver than the rest of us. For the less than godly players, yes, build all 3. I don't recommend mobilization, it kinda is a tool for desperate times. I rarely use it, unless my assets are getting kicked.

 

[Spoonwood]

I can see why you wouldn't build those great wonders in 20k games necessarily, since the great wonders give you more culture... but as a fallback... or if you get a military great leader I feel they have their uses. I don't think I've gotten a leader in my 20k games though, since I don't really try and fight wars in those, except when I have to do so.

 

[timerover51]

I think a reasonable indication as to their usefulness is that Dexters. a very good player, is trying to add at least one additional army-producing buiding to his new mod. I am also one that builds all three, and although having to wait until transports to fully use the 4-unit army, its usefulness far outweighs having to wait for it. As I play a lot of archipelago and continent maps, I spend a lot of time mounting amphibious invasions. A 4 Marine army is really nice to have in those cases.

 

[Northen Wolf]

I'd rate those small wonders, in my experience:

1) Most important is the pentagon, it changes armies to 4 unit armies instead of 3 unit ones, boosting offense & defense (not sure in that) and Health by ALOT, makes armies even harder to kill and more 'stronger'= more easily surviving when attacking enemy(not redlining so fast, killing more units etc.).

2) Military academy - This small wonder allows you to use armies as prebuild for wonders, or manually produce armies - useful in high shield towns.

3) Heroic epic - Increases chance of getting MGL, if you are warmonger (even if non militaristic), then you should get plenty of armies (MGL's) without it. But it can help if you go thru peace-war-peace cycles not as fast as warmongers.

 

[dexters]

I want the AI to be able to build them too.

See my Epic Mod thread.

 

[eldar]

HE in a 20K game is fantastic if you get it early - 4cpt for 200 shields is one of the best shields-per-culture ratios (50spc) available - bettered only by:

Library (80/3=26.67spc, 40/3=13.33 if Sci);
Cathedral (80/3=26.67spc, Rel civs only);
Temple (60/2=30spc, 30/2=15 if Rel);
University (100/4=25spc, Sci civs only)

And the same as:
Statue of Zeus (200/4=50spc);
University (200/4=50spc, all non-Sci civs)

So in terms of bang-for-yer-buck culture-wise, HE is way at the top of the list.

 

[rysingsun]

yes, all small wonders can be built under mobilization in C3C.

i recommend all 3.

Not much discussion on whether it is actually worth it to spend 400 shields building an army. I used to be a believer. Nowadays I don't. I do use them as prebuilds though.

I use mobilization in most games. To me the closer the game gets to being done the less purpose there is in anything non-military. So it's not usually a matter of if, but a matter of when.

 

[darski]

I have played at least 3 games recently to the end and with all my warring - I have never gotten a single MGL. I just don't get them (that often) so I cannot count on them or the buildings they thereby generate.

It has been noted in other places that the rngods hate me and will not give me the time of day so I have to play without these things.

I would build them if I got the chance though.

 

[timerover51]

Darski, if you do not mind tampering with the game a little bit, Dexters is thinking about setting the Palace to produce a leader every 80 turns or so. I have done a WEE BIT more tampering, as I do not play militaristic civilizations, that seem to get the Military Great Leaders easiest. I have set several Wonders to produce leaders. Another option would be to uncheck the "requires victorious army" in the Heroic Epic data menu, and set the required advance to Literature, so that you can build it when you get Literature, and set it to build a leader every so many turns, so 40 or so so that you do not get overwhelmed with them.

 

[darski]

I think I may try that trick with Literature.

I don't think I have gotten a single MGL since I got C3C. I have really good luck with getting SGL's though.



Just goes to show yah...

I got 2 MGL's today playing as the Americans so I got my armies, HE and the M.A.

Life is never boring or static for Civvers