Art Stuff

[achilleszero]

Thanks! I'll wait around for the PlotL and then give that FPK file a go. Do I just stick it in the Assets folder where the Wolfshanze and Achilles FPK packs are and it'll do its thing automatically?

Yep just stick it in there with the other FPKs. Here is the PlotL, it goes in the xml/buildings folder:

PlotLSystem

 

[achilleszero]

Phungus: So with the BlueMarble and invisible cottages thing we have two options:

1) The best idea would for me to make a new PlotLSystem. The whole problem was that BtS PlotL refers to artstyles that dont exist in LoR;s GlobalDefines. Changing these pretty much means option 2 (which sucks). So I would take BM's PlotL and isolate the cottages section. I think it is all in its own section so that should be easy. Then I will just have to paste over the cottages section in BtS's PlotL. Since the BtS doesnt use artstyles for improvements no change will be needed to those (I think thats right otherwise people would have immediately noticed invisible farms and stuff). Should be simple in theory atleast.

2) Option 2 sucks, because it is what you mentioned last post. It would mean reverting to Light's CivilizationInfos,GlobalDefines, and BtS's PlotLSystem which use standard BtS art. That would be a big hit to the main mod.

EDIT: Also Merri found this in the text file mentioned in the post. Dont know if it eefects anything but it looks like this:

            <Finnish>Anarchy</Finnish>
	[B]</TEXT><TEXT>[/B]
            <Tag>TXT_KEY_LEADER_ABU_BAKR</Tag>

 

[Merri]

I think I just saw it wrong (ie. bolded tags the other way around) when I was quickly looking for anything that could be wrong with the text files. I don't have any XML tools installed on my new computer yet so I'm limited to just viewing by eye, thus that was an easy catch (although not incorrect).


Did I say at some point that I think the title screen could look better if it had trees?

 

[achilleszero]

Did I say at some point that I think the title screen could look better if it had trees?

No you havent, but you were reading my mind.. I keep forgetting to ask if trees would "spruce" it up. Also thinking about having some cavarly (maybe LegioX) riding over the hill on the right, between the options menu and Leo's Workshop.

 

[phungus420]

I think you mean global types, and not global defines. All the artstyle types are in global types, so that's not an issue. Check LoR's and LoR light's global types file, they are identical. I'm certain the issue is that BtS's plotLSystem file is referencing artstyles that aren't being used, and that some of the artstyles don't have anything defined for them in the default BtS plotLSystem file. ARTSTYLE_CRESENT never appears in the BtS PlotLSystem file, this is the issue. I figured things would work, because I didn't realize cottages and stuff are specific to artstyle types when refernced in the PlotLSystem, ARTSTYLE_ALL must not be being used for cottages. Anyway, option1 just isn't an option because it doesn't adress the issue, the issue has nothing to do with the globaltypes file. Rather it is one with compatibility, with the artstyles being used in CiviliztionsInfos and what is being referenced in PlotLSystem.

The longterm solution would be to use a virtual default city ethnic styles for the full version, and add 2 needed types Native, and African. These would then need to be individually added to the default BtS PlotLSystem and CityLSystem files. I tried to do this, but got way too confused. Anyway doing this will also reduce the size of the AchillesZero.fpk file as it'd only need the added art from these two artstyle types.

 

[achilleszero]

I think you mean global types, and not global defines. All the artstyle types are in global types, so that's not an issue. Check LoR's and LoR light's global types file, they are identical. I'm certain the issue is that BtS's plotLSystem file is referencing artstyles that aren't being used, and that some of the artstyles don't have anything defined for them in the default BtS plotLSystem file. ARTSTYLE_CRESENT never appears in the BtS PlotLSystem file, this is the issue. I figured things would work, because I didn't realize cottages and stuff are specific to artstyle types when refernced in the PlotLSystem, ARTSTYLE_ALL must not be being used for cottages. Anyway, option1 just isn't an option because it doesn't adress the issue, the issue has nothing to do with the globaltypes file. Rather it is one with compatibility, with the artstyles being used in CiviliztionsInfos and what is being referenced in PlotLSystem.

Actually it does address the problem, but you have used the wrong CivlizationInfos and GlobalTypes( yeah I was calling it the wrong name) for LoR light. I set it up for the two versions to use completely different GlobalTypes. There is more difference thatn just new artstyles like crescent. When I sent you those last xml files for 0.96, that were split up between the LoR and LoR light, the CivilizationInfos and GlobalTypes were in the LoR folder and not in the Light folder. So they should have only been used for LoR. LoR light should have kept using the ones it had already been using. The Light versions refernced artstyles that exist in BtS. The normal LoR xml files referenced new artstyles (Artstyle_Europe instead of Artstyle_European, as well as Crescent and Norse). By using the normal LoR CivilzationInfos and GlobalTypes in LoR Light, you are referencing city art that is only found in the AchillesZero.FPK. So people should be having problems with both Light and LoR, as there is no artstyle_europe,asia,africa,etc, according to BtS. BtS PlotL shouldnt recognize the GlobalTypes being used at all. So thats why I made seperate versions.

The entire problem with 'LoR without the BM PlotLSystem' is that all the artstyles refered to in the GlobalTypes and CivilizationInfos donot exist according to BtS's PlotLSystem. The only reason that the cottages are visible in the ancient era is that all ancient cottages in BtS use sort of an artstyle_ALL thing. THen when classical era kicks in the seperate artstyles kick in. Mostly, its actually more complicated than that.

So we need to fix LoR Light's GlobalTypes and CivilizationInfos to the files that the original LoRlight version used, if you still have those. Then make a plotLSystem that refers to Ethnic city art but BtS improvement art.

 

[phungus420]

LoR light works fine with all the current global types in there. This is done so that LoR and LoR light are save game compatible. Also it works fine, look at it, no issues with LoR light. So the issue is that the PlotLSystem that LoR uses is the default BtS one (unless you load Blue Marble), which the default PlotLSystem doesn't reference the new types in CivilizationsInfos.

 

[achilleszero]

LoR light works fine with all the current global types in there. This is done so that LoR and LoR light are save game compatible. Also it works fine, look at it, no issues with LoR light.

I cant check the newest Light version as I never got ahold of it, so I am flying blind on that part. But it is curious that it works at all, none of those files match. Do both LoR and LoR Light use the same CivilizationInfos as well? I would imagine they have to if they have the same GlobalTypes and that defines the useble ArtStyles.

So the issue is that the PlotLSystem that LoR uses is the default BtS one (unless you load Blue Marble), which the default PlotLSystem doesn't reference the new types in CivilizationsInfos.

Yes, this is why I originally proposed making a PlotLSystem for LoR without BM. So that we have ethnic cities but not ethnic improvements.

 

[phungus420]

LoR and LoR light use different Civilizations infos, the only difference between the two is the Artstyles. Now LoR (full) uses a custom CityLSystem file that defines the city buildings so the city structures work fine. However in LoR (full) without blue marble it doesn't have a custom PlotLSystem, so it uses BtS's, BtS's doesn't reference the new types, like Cresent, etc. so it simply doesn't place anything. But here is the problem, pulling all that custom art on the terrains is going to be too system demanding, so it's not a good idea to just plop in blue marble's PlotLSystem. In fact the added city styles are cool, but seem more suited to a graphic enhancement pack. So my idea is to Create a Custom CityLSystem, PlotLSystem, and CivilizationsInfos file for each level of LoR (actually light will just use BtS's CityL and PlotL), where full will use default + the Native and African artstyle types. Then if blue Marble is selected (probably need to rename this to just Expanded Graphix or something) all the artstyles will be added. I'm talking city art here too, not unit art, which works fine as is. Anyway GlobalTypes doesn't apply here at all, they all use the same, where all global types are defined, to maintain save game. I don't know how to better explain what is going on. Here is the best summation I can get. In LoR light, the engine references the civilization, let's use Babylon, everything in it is default (ARTSTYLE_MIDDLE_EAST), it looks up ARTSTYLE_MIDDLE_EAST in global types, finds it so it can continue, then it wants to render city art, it can't find a custom CityLSystem file so it reads BtS's, and places the city art, same for the PlotLSystem. Now when we move on to full, same thing happens, except instead of ARSTYLE_MIDDLE_EAST, it see ARTSTYLE_CRESENT, which agan exists in globaltypes, so that's fine; then when it wants to render the models for the city art, it looks and finds a custom CityLSystem, and finds everything it needs and references everything and renders them fine. The problem occurs when it looks for the PlotLSystem, it doesn't find one, so it reads BtS's PlotL, but it never sees any instances of ARTSTYLE_CRESENT (except when it finds ARTSTYLE_ALL), so it only renders models for objects that are defined with ARTSTYLE_ALL, which doesn't seem to include cottages after the classical era. When the blue marble add on is installed, it does find a custom PlotLSystem file, and so renders the ARTSTYLE_CRESENT models without issue. This is the problem it has nothing to do with globaltypes.xml, as every artstyle LoR uses is in there, and all versions use the same file in order to maintain save game compatibility.

 

[phungus420]

I cant check the newest Light version as I never got ahold of it, so I am flying blind on that part.

I only removed the download links from here, because 0.9.6b was broken, and I overreacted for various reasons. In retrospect it's not such a bad thing though, as this issue along with the critical bug in the viking fighter makes 0.9.6b crtically broken in my oppinion. Anyway LoR can still be download from the sites it was on (except StrategyInformer, where it has been removed entirely until 0.9.6 gets fixed). Here is the modDb mirror, you can find Light and full versions of 0.9.6b there:

http://www.moddb.com/mods/legends-of-revolution/downloads/

 

[achilleszero]

I understand whats happening. What I didnt know is that you added the BtS artstyles back into the GlobalTypes. I went through alot of work setting up the XML files that I originally sent, because I was unaware of save game compatibility. So I have been basing my argument upon how I set it up originally. My old way would have led us to the exact same predicament, but I would have known exactly what was going on. The way things are now completely contradicts what shouldve been happening with my old files, so it confused the hell out of me

However I have been on the same page about creating a new PlotLSystem for LoR without BM. I will set that up tomorrow.

Although this leads me to another thought. How complecated are we going to make LoR. Even though its just a few files, this now makes 3 distinct versions. This will be good from the perspective of "a version for everyone". But bad for future mod-modders and for the more casual users. This does seem like our only hope but now I have another question.

Is it really more system intensive? The city art LoR uses is actually the same or less than Firaxis art. The textures are actually a quarter of what they use. Have we noticed a performance boost since moving the improvement art away? Theres really not much more city art than what LoR had for 90% of its life. And as you saw theres not very much in the way of improvement art.

 

[phungus420]

To be honest I'm not sure. But it seems common sense that it would be more system intensive. Also it's definately easier on the RAM the smaller the packed art is, as all this is loaded into the RAM and stays there, taking up space, so that alone would definatly give a small improvement.

As far as mod mods go, they'll just need to tailor to Light or Full versions, no way around it, I'd assume most mod modders will tailor their mod mods to full though. Some could ignore this and be cross type compatible, but to do that they'll need to not touch CivilizationsInfos, ArtDefinesUnit, and LSystem files, if these aren't changed though mod mods could be cross version compatible.

Edit:
Actually if we really wanted to be slick, we could use the same ARTSTYLE_ types in all versions of LoR, and just make it so at varying levels (light, full, or expanded) the LSystem references change. Ie basically with Light, we'd clone in all the extranious entries in the default BtS LSystem files like so:

		</ArtRef>
			<ArtRef Name="generic:an_eu.nif::1x1_01">
			<Attribute Class="Era">ERA_ANCIENT,ERA_CLASSICAL</Attribute>
			<Attribute Class="ArtStyle">ARTSTYLE_EUROPEAN,[B]ARTSTYLE_IBERIA,ARTSTYLE_ANGLO_AMERICA,ARTSTYLE_NORSE,ARTSTYLE_RUSSIA[/B],ARTSTYLE_SOUTH_AMERICA,[B]ARTSTYLE_MESO_AMERICA,ARTSTYLE_NATIVE_AMERICA,ARTSTYLE_ARABIA,ARTSTYLE_CRESENT,ARTSTYLE_EGYPT,ARTSTYLE_INDIA[/B],ARTSTYLE_MIDDLE_EAST,ARTSTYLE_BARBARIAN</Attribute>
			<Attribute Class="Scalar">iBatchGroup:0</Attribute>
		</ArtRef>

 

[achilleszero]

So this is going to take me a quite a while to do. It just got more complicated by now having to merge in the Native and African styles in to the BtS LSystem.

And now choosing BM will be taking a massive hit compared to playing the other 2 versions. Most everyother mod has Geo's stuff as standard. I like moving the Improvements to BM but all the city art and LoR falls behind other mods.

If total FPK size is the problem, I have almost removed 25 more MB from the FPK in the last few days with more to do. That is almost what the structure art takes up.

 

[phungus420]

Set it up how you want to. Just throwing out ideas here. And yeah, I tried to go in and set things up, but as stated the CityLSystem file was just too unwieldy for me... so good luck to you, howeer you decide to do it.

 

[Alsark]

Yep just stick it in there with the other FPKs. Here is the PlotL, it goes in the xml/buildings folder:

PlotLSystem

Gah, sorry, man. You kind of wasted your time on me there. I ended up getting a very nasty bit of malware on my computer called Braviax. It generated all sorts of annoying pop-ups, and worse, it disabled anything that would scan the computer (anti-virus/anti-spyware/anti-malware programs), even while in safe mode. So there was really no way to get rid of it (trust me, I tried everything I found on the internet and tango'd with the thing for seven hours after giving up). The only solution that was left? Reformatting my computer. In the mean time my Civ 4 computer is temporarily out of commission. Classes start tomorrow as well, so I am not going to worry about getting everything set back up until then.

 

[achilleszero]

Gah, sorry, man. You kind of wasted your time on me there. I ended up getting a very nasty bit of malware on my computer called Braviax. It generated all sorts of annoying pop-ups, and worse, it disabled anything that would scan the computer (anti-virus/anti-spyware/anti-malware programs), even while in safe mode. So there was really no way to get rid of it (trust me, I tried everything I found on the internet and tango'd with the thing for seven hours after giving up). The only solution that was left? Reformatting my computer. In the mean time my Civ 4 computer is temporarily out of commission. Classes start tomorrow as well, so I am not going to worry about getting everything set back up until then.

That sucks. Had to wipe my hard drive 4 months ago as well.

Well its probably a "good" thing it happened now and not earlier, with LoR being on a little brake right now.

Hurry back I have lots of UU research I need help with.

 

[Alsark]

That sucks. Had to wipe my hard drive 4 months ago as well.

Well its probably a "good" thing it happened now and not earlier, with LoR being on a little brake right now.

Hurry back I have lots of UU research I need help with.

And yeah, it definitely is better off having happened now than later.

Haha. I'll still be around here and there. Feel free to throw some ideas out there and I can get some articles written up on them. Unique units don't take very long to write something up on at all (it's the leaderheads that can take an hour or two). Haha, just don't throw like five leaderhead entries for me to write up at once. I'm glad I don't have to rewrite Reagen (I'm not very interested in modern history or America, so modern America is a double yuck).

Is the idea to eventually have two unique units per civilization, or are we just doing that for individual civilizations? I wouldn't entirely mind two unique buildings, either, but that might be pushing it. I do like having the civilizations be more distinct from one another rather than just two differences between each civilization (not counting leaders).

 

[achilleszero]

Is the idea to eventually have two unique units per civilization, or are we just doing that for individual civilizations? I wouldn't entirely mind two unique buildings, either, but that might be pushing it. I do like having the civilizations be more distinct from one another rather than just two differences between each civilization (not counting leaders).

Its not for LoR, its for my own UU add-ons. I dont forsee many more UUs getting added to the main LoR, other than the random addition here and there that pop into Phungus' head.

I am trying to make all civs have atleast 2. I like some civs having 3 or even 4, as long as everyone else could get a second. A 2-1 ratio is alot better than the 3-1 we have with now. I am going to throw up a list of the ones I have so far and which ones I still need ideas for.

UBs are really hard to come up with. I might do a few 2nd UB's for civs that have weak UU. But coming up with a 2nd for every civ is a really daunting task.

 

[Alsark]

Its not for LoR, its for my own UU add-ons. I dont forsee many more UUs getting added to the main LoR, other than the random addition here and there that pop into Phungus' head.

I am trying to make all civs have atleast 2. I like some civs having 3 or even 4, as long as everyone else could get a second. A 2-1 ratio is alot better than the 3-1 we have with now. I am going to throw up a list of the ones I have so far and which ones I still need ideas for.

UBs are really hard to come up with. I might do a few 2nd UB's for civs that have weak UU. But coming up with a 2nd for every civ is a really daunting task.

Ah, cool, cool! Is this an LoR add-on or a vanilla BtS add-on?

And sure, that sounds great - I'd love to help think of some ideas for unique units. There are plenty of civilizations I do not know about in Civ 4, but a little bit of research would help do some revealing.

Good point about the unique building thing. Some civilizations... yeah... it might be hard to come up with two. You could maybe reuse some unique buildings, though. I mentioned this in the bugs forum actually (it got off-topic), but I like the idea of the trading post from Civilization: Revolution, which adds commerce to desert. This unique building could be used for both Egypt and Arabia (and other African/Middle East civilizations if there are no immediate better ideas). Although actually coding a building that gives commerce to desert is surprisingly difficult (you have to edit the python, because there is no way via XML to add variables to desert).

Other civilizations wouldn't be bad, though. I could try coming up with a unique building list after we've worked on the unique units - if you'd like to add more to your add-on pack. That's obviously up to you, though.

 

[phungus420]

Hey achilleszero the mod has been down for a while, any idea on when the art will be updated so we can release 0.9.6c?