Art Stuff

[phungus420]

I just got to start on the unit art. Only been able to do the vikings and vietnamese. With the leaderhead folder I just cut it down from 120MB to 109. You say you took out the new Darius, in LoRLite. So do you want to keep him out? He takes up more a hait more memory than the new Alex, and is nowhere as detailed. Ive compressed the hell out of it and its still at 10 megs. Also dont really seems to be much of an improvement over the stock Darius. The other "New" vanilla leaders seem like genuine improvements and dont take very much space.

The point of Light is to remove everything that isn't necessary. So using stock leaders/units if possible. The one exception is Alexander, because the new one is 1000x better then the stock version. But that's it, for anyting else, going with BtS models if at all possible.

EDIT: When you are doing the art, are you using my most recent FPK? Only thing with that is the Pathfinders. I had all references to frontiersman changed to Pathfinder in all the folders and XML files. So just remember you will need the XML text file entries I sent. Not really hard stuff but will save you aggravation.

Use LoR light as a reference point. It is released and meant as a static starting point from which to build off of.

Also any new art that is added will go in a new fpk, might as well name it achilleszero or something else if you prefer. Basically the Wolfshanze pak will be all the minimal necessary art for the mod to work, and the second pak file will be for all the ethnic art that is getting placed back in a full LoR. For models I used your latest upload for the art in the LoR light pak, but there are significant changes to the XML. So again just use the current LoR light as a base from which to build off of.

 

[achilleszero]

The point of Light is to remove everything that isn't necessary. So using stock leaders/units if possible. The one exception is Alexander, because the new one is 1000x better then the stock version. But that's it, for anyting else, going with BtS models if at all possible.

Yeah I knew that. I was wondering if leaving him out of normal LoR was an option. Didnt know if you or wolf had put it in there. It takes up 10 MB even after compressing the hell out of it. After I got done with the new Alex it only takes up 9. The new Darius is a good looking LH, I was just looking for places to save memory in the FPK.

 

[phungus420]

I thought I removed him from LoR light. If I forgot, he should be removed. The only extranious model used in LoR light should be the Alexander leaderhead (again because it is overwhelmingly superior to the firaxis model). I've even gone so far as to use the default immortal model as the model for the standard horseman unit, in order to use stock models.


On the opening screen. I meant the spartan that raises his sword should be up close in your face, so that when he raises his sword that would be like the main focal point of the opening screen. At least that's how I'm envisioning it. It looks good currently but I think the animated spartan is still too far away, I think he should be up in your face when the title screen loads.

 

[achilleszero]

I thought I removed him from LoR light. If I forgot, he should be removed. The only extranious model used in LoR light should be the Alexander leaderhead (again because it is overwhelmingly superior to the firaxis model). I've even gone so far as to use the default immortal model as the model for the standard horseman unit, in order to use stock models.

Ok were not on the same page here. I havent even fired up LoR lite so I have no idea what youve done in it. I can only assume that you did take the alt Darius out. I just remember you posting that you were taking him out of Lite. So that lead me to the question of do we really need the alternate LH in there in the LoR 1.0, as I am looking for ways to reduce the FPK and for the reasons in my last 2 posts.

On the opening screen. I meant the spartan that raises his sword should be up close in your face, so that when he raises his sword that would be like the main focal point of the opening screen. At least that's how I'm envisioning it. It looks good currently but I think the animated spartan is still too far away, I think he should be up in your face when the title screen loads.

Ah. Ok that sounds good. Will just have to re shape the terrain a little and get his stupid arm working right. I wish I could find how that main menu box is controlled. It is severly putting a damper on the positioning of the units. If it could just be a little smaller that would be great.

 

[phungus420]

Ok were not on the same page here. I havent even fired up LoR lite so I have no idea what youve done in it. I can only assume that you did take the alt Darius out. I just remember you posting that you were taking him out of Lite. So that lead me to the question of do we really need the alternate LH in there in the LoR 1.0, as I am looking for ways to reduce the FPK and for the reasons in my last 2 posts.

LoR light is the template to build from. Any added art or whatever needs to be added to LoR light in order to create a full ethnic art release. The artdefines XML has been entirely rebuilt, so you really need to fire it up, as from here on out LoR light is the Core to use as a frame of reference. As I said above the Wolfshanze.fpk will consist only of the essential art for LoR light, this will be included in the main release. All the flavor art for the full release will be used to build a secondary pak file, probably named achilleszero unless you have an issue with naming the main art pak that.

I wish I could find how that main menu box is controlled. It is severly putting a damper on the positioning of the units. If it could just be a little smaller that would be great.

That was handled in the main executable, it wasn't exposed to the dll (or through any other means) in 3.17. Firaxis exposed more source code in 3.19, but I'm not sure if any of the new exposed code handled the opening screen box, and have seen no references to it. Best to just consider that hardcoded, as it probably is (and if it's not it will likely take a while for someone to locate the new exposed code, and to figure out how to implement it).

 

[achilleszero]

LoR light is the template to build from. Any added art or whatever needs to be added to LoR light in order to create a full ethnic art release. The artdefines XML has been entirely rebuilt, so you really need to fire it up, as from here on out LoR light is the Core to use as a frame of reference. As I said above the Wolfshanze.fpk will consist only of the essential art for LoR light, this will be included in the main release. All the flavor art for the full release will be used to build a secondary pak file, probably named achilleszero unless you have an issue with naming the main art pak that.

Ok, thats good to know. But what I am asking is much simpler than all that. All I was asking is that if we can just not readd that alternate Darius model when we are making this second FPK, to try to trim down the load times. As in just leaving the Darius art defines as you have it now in LoR lite, thats all.

 

[phungus420]

Aesthetics really isn't my strong suite. I'll leave that decision up to you, cause I really have no idea of the "new" Darius (or Surneyarvaram or whoever) models are worth it to include or not.

 

[phungus420]

OK, some playtesting stuff for LoR Light.

Ataturk -Looks a little wierd, mainly his eyes. He just looks creepy, lol, if possible it'd be nice to touch him up, mainly his eyes.

Reagan -His BG is broken, maybe something happened in the compression. Of course maybe Reagan should be dropped for someone else. The issue here though is, there really aren't any leaders available that are more deserving of a spot then Reagan, and have a good LH made (suggestions?).


Anyway that's all for now. I really need to work on getting the ethnic art back in, but I also really need to play test through a whole game..., and once I'm done with that, I probably should focus on SDK stuff I need to work on (like the legends promos, exposing hidden values, etc). So I likely wol't get to the art myself for a week or two. So don't let me stop you from diving into the ethnic art, just please follow the new commented structure of the LoR light ArtDefines file.

 

[achilleszero]

As far as the Reagan background goes, I think Ive found the problem. Its texture is 512x424. Went back and check wolfRev and apparently its always been like that. So i dunno, its always displayed right in the civlopedia. But it works now so thats all that matters.

Of course maybe Reagan should be dropped for someone else. The issue here though is, there really aren't any leaders available that are more deserving of a spot then Reagan, and have a good LH made (suggestions?).

No I dont see any leaders that might replace him. The Reagan LH is really one of the better LHs, well one of the most true to life at least. And looking through the major LH creator threads, I dont see any plans to do a more deserving leader at the moment. Hypothetically speaking if I were to add another american leader, I always wanted a Theodore Roosevelt. But the only one in the DB looks too much like churchill.

 

[phungus420]

I've got another request for the Opening screen. Can you make the Title Text in the background? So that when the Red Baron flys around he is in front of the text.

 

[achilleszero]

I've got another request for the Opening screen. Can you make the Title Text in the background? So that when the Red Baron flys around he is in front of the text.

Yeah i can do that. Would you rather have it completly behind him or in the center of his flight path, to where he is in front of it half of the time

 

[phungus420]

Yeah i can do that. Would you rather have it completly behind him or in the center of his flight path, to where he is in front of it half of the time

I don't know. It might be cool to have him flying around it. You could check both ways of doing it and decide which one you prefer based on how it looks. This is a pretty minute detail anyway.

 

[phungus420]

I'm going to compress the art soon, within the hour. Then compile the installer for 0.9.4b once the pakbuild is done. So if you have any last minute changes, or an updated title screen and you want it in 0.9.4b upload it now.

 

[achilleszero]

Nope, nothing for now, Its gona be next release before i have anything to add. Still working on the artstyle thing.

 

[phungus420]

Cool, cool. The new diplo music is making it in the 0.9.4b build. I really like the way it turned out.

 

[achilleszero]

Phungus: for the opening screen would it be too much if i has the main spartan that you want closer up, to have one foot stepping on the back of a dead persian immortal or two?

 

[phungus420]

Phungus: for the opening screen would it be too much if i has the main spartan that you want closer up, to have one foot stepping on the back of a dead persian immortal or two?

Probably. The intent is to have the mod appear like something that could have come from Firaxis. There has been some deviation from that, namely Hitler being a leader, but I contend this is becuase of the legal issues in Germany, if it wasn't for German laws banning Hitler I'd wager Firaxis would have released Hitler. At least to my mind Hitler, Mao, and Stalin are pretty comperable in terms of evilness, all 3 of these dudes killed millions of people just for their ego, or bizzare political/social beliefs. However dead dudes being stepped on by the main image in a title screen doesn't seem to be something Firaxis would have used as title screen art. I mean maybe it could work, but try to keep in mind that it the goal is too look like something that is official.

 

[achilleszero]

Phungus: So the "flavor" UU's like Daimyo and Falshirm-jeagermeister or whatevr, are going to be gone in LoR's core just like in Lite? If so Im just changing thier art to thier civs ethnic unit.

Another small problem: In vanilla civ there are actually 2 units that I know of that are over 2000 poly. The Egyptian War Charit and another chariot. I think thats why a few of those ethnic chariots I mentioned awhile back have over 2000. How are your thoughts on this?

 

[phungus420]

Phungus: So the "flavor" UU's like Daimyo and Falshirm-jeagermeister or whatevr, are going to be gone in LoR's core just like in Lite? If so Im just changing thier art to thier civs ethnic unit.

LoR must be save game compatible with LoR light when an official 0.9.5 version is released. So that means the UnitInfos and UnitClassInfos must have the same number and types of Units defined in them (so yeah, flavor UUs are going by by). Interestingly enough before 3.19 the ArtDefinesUnit file had to match (at least the # of items and the string definitions for the units had to) in order to maintain save game, but 3.19 allows for changes in the artdefines file for some reason, which makes creating a LoR and LoR light split much easier.

Another small problem: In vanilla civ there are actually 2 units that I know of that are over 2000 poly. The Egyptian War Charit and another chariot. I think thats why a few of those ethnic chariots I mentioned awhile back have over 2000. How do we proceed with this?

If it's a stock unit, no sense in removing it. But it wouldn't hurt to, the less polys being rendered the better for performance. Really in the Medieval and earlier eras poly counts from unit art doesn't matter anyway in terms of performance, because there just aren't that many models being rendered (keep in mind the game renders everything that exists on the map though). The hard 2000 poly limit isn't technically necessary, but it is essential in order to have a set standard. A standard like that is something I've found necessary in projects like these otherwise the line just keeps getting moved, and eventually the intent itself is undermined, so that's the reason for the 2000 poly line in the sand. But as I said if it's stock BtS art, I'm not concerned.

 

[achilleszero]

LoR must be save game compatible with LoR light when an official 0.9.5 version is released. So that means the UnitInfos and UnitClassInfos must have the same number and types of Units defined in them (so yeah, flavor UUs are going by by). Interestingly enough before 3.19 the ArtDefinesUnit file had to match (at least the # of items and the string definitions for the units had to) in order to maintain save game, but 3.19 allows for changes in the artdefines file for some reason, which makes creating a LoR and LoR light split much easier.

Ok then, all im editing are the UnitArtStyle and ArtDefines, so I guess I wont have a problem.

I have just installed notebook++ and I have to say it is much better. Couple of questions on it though.

a) It seems that a rarely some of my lines will be indented funny. Its only the </UnitArtInfo> or similar headers. I know you said white space doesnt effect xml, but its annoying. Regular notebook did it to me too.

b) Is Notebook++ what I need to edit python?