Article: The Ahistorical Representation of Religion in Civilization

[AriochIV]

I dont quite agree with the article but it would be nice if we had some base beliefs for every category but some other options showed up depending of whats going on (ie Messiah option shows up if you are getting your city conquered and it makes your soldiers or cities stronger or w.e.)

I would like it if some of the beliefs more closely modeled aspects of real-world religions, but I have the impression that Firaxis was deliberately trying to avoid this in Civ V. Setting up models of religion that allow some to be shown as demonstrably better than others (which is what the article author seems to be asking for) is dicey political territory.

It will be interesting to see how Religion evolves in Civ VI. I do like that there seems to be a greater variety of icons, etc.

 

[Zaarin]

I would really love to see just one example of video game that successfully reflect the real world theology that doesn't look like a clickable lecture.

Me, too! And I mean that seriously: I would love a religious-inspired game that doesn't feel like an interactive sermon.

I can't think of a way to represent real world religions without being offensive to certain group of people. Civ 4 explicitly said that every religions is the same in that game because of it's sensitive nature.

I agree. I think any strictly set form of real-world religions is either going to offend or at least annoy people who practice that religion, the people who practice alternate forms of that religion (e.g., Catholics vs Protestants vs Orthodox [which really ought to be split into Eastern and Oriental]), or people who practice an entirely different religion. It also removes the ability to create an entirely fictitious religion.

 

[adcarrymaokai]

My impression is that most people did not read the article and treated it like a twee by reading a line or a word here and there. It's not a masterpiece, but it has some interesting suggestions.

I dont quite agree with the article but it would be nice if we had some base beliefs for every category but some other options showed up depending of whats going on (ie Messiah option shows up if you are getting your city conquered and it makes your soldiers or cities stronger or w.e.)

Yup. Religion in Civ V is really static: you choose something and have to stick with it to the end of the game, while real-life religions have evolved and changed throughout history. Would be cool, if players could have additional beliefs and reformations based on historical events or progress of civics.

 

[dexters]

My impression is that most people did not read the article and treated it like a twee by reading a line or a word here and there. It's not a masterpiece, but it has some interesting suggestions.

Yes, better put under 'ideas and suggestions' where maybe a few hundred fanatical Civvers will read it and half of that will respond. But that means $0 ad revenue or clickthroughs will be generated.

 

[Browd]

Moderator Action: This does fit better in Ideas & Suggestions. Thread moved.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Oh, hello undergrad historian... That was painful to read

I think he finally lost the plot when he said 'The particulars of the mechanics are of secondary concern.' I'd say for a computer game, the particulars of mechanics should probably take precedent, but what do I know next to a featured journalist who calls civilization a 'real-time strategy' game

Also, is this what the forum has boiled down to now the news has run dry? Between spots of meaningful info being redirected to rants on other websites through shameless plugging rather than having discussion on this forum?

Good catch on both of those. I had a friend from back in my seminary days check over the article prior to publication, but that was primarily for historical accuracy.

I edited the final paragraph to begin: "The particulars of how Firaxis implements such mechanics are of secondary concern." This reflects my intended meaning, though the original wording was poor in retrospect. I also corrected "RTS" to "Turned Based Strategy."

And this is not just a sock puppet account. I've been fairly active in the past over on the official forums under the name RideASpaceCowboy. With Civilization VI fast approaching, I'm starting to post there more often again, and plan to become more active here as well. Of course, being a writer for a living, sometimes on the off hours I prefer to lurk on the message boards more often than post.

 

[Icaria909]

I really enjoyed the article. I especially liked the suggestion that religion should evolve in the game by changing in response to historical events, much as religion does in real life. I'm not sure how it would work in the game, but it certainly provides some thought provoking possibilities.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[dexters]

And this is not just a sock puppet account. I've been fairly active in the past over on the official forums under the name RideASpaceCowboy. With Civilization VI fast approaching, I'm starting to post there more often again, and plan to become more active here as well. Of course, being a writer for a living, sometimes on the off hours I prefer to lurk on the message boards more often than post.

I think some clarity in the OP that it is your article and you want us to give you clicks may have gone down better. As it is, the OP says nothing about it, and you've only come clean after several people expressed doubts about the sincerity of the OP.

You're not the first to use a disposable account with no post history to advertise something. Maybe you were worried you'd get banned and thread locked. Could have checked with the Mods first.

 

[unpossible251]

Mmmm, i'm torn.

There's a part of me that would like to see not only faith, but also tech, military, and economy, actively shaped by the environment. So, earning "papal primacy" for CS relationships, "god of war" while defending my lands from barbarians, and so on.

In war, unit upgrades being allocated based on what your units actually do, rather than on choosing the upgrade, and the economy shaped by the sort of trade deals, policies and relationships i have.

Another part of me knows that this idea is incredibly stupid, and if the game took away my choices i would start grumbling and go for the restart.

 

[Camikaze]

Moderator Action: Let's not speculate as to the OP's means or motives, please. Just stick to discussing the topic.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

I was just re-reading my old article while working on my review of Civilization VI.

Now that the game is finally out, I'm somewhat disappointing that the religion mechanic didn't evolve along the lines of my proposals. Here's to hoping the expansions address the matter.

 

[Bodin]

The main issue with the approach to Religion in Civilization games seems to mix theology with the founding of a religion; a type of 'evolutionary' approach to religion (such as claiming that monotheism MUST come from polytheism). Rather, the founding of a religion should be separate from its theology. There should be room for a founding monotheistic religion, polytheistic or henotheistic religion, a monist approach to religion (such as pantheism or panentheism), and even an 'atheistic' or 'agnostic' approach to religion. Developments of the beliefs and practices of that religion are what the 'tech' tree should have rather than theologies. So I would agree with this article in that it is ahistorical because its not an accurate representation of how religions have developed in history even though the Civilization game seems to want to 'recreate' progress when it comes to science/technology and specific eras.