As Much as I Love the Civ Switch Mechanic I Really Hope they Fix how Clunky and Abrupt the System is.

It read as a pretty straightforward question to me, my bad.

Nowhere did I say you or anyone had to. In fact, I explicitly said people are free to not like it. To borrow your phrase, that's a false dichotomy.

that actually isn't a false dictohomy... no where did I present an either or situation and present them as the only two options.

You tried to run a defense and/or explain how game design works to me, and I rejected that explaination because again, it doesn't matter to me. I just care about the end product. Thats not me creating a false dicthomy, thats just me simply rejecting your explaination as irrelevant

(you probably could make the argument that I strawmanned you though and for that I will apologize)

Actually I'd argue a lot of effort has been spent by some folks on how this wasn't actually a way to tackle the problem(s) presented. Some opinions have gone much further than "I don't like it" and have strayed into "this won't even work". But again, as nobody asked this question, this is another false dichotomy.

That said, I didn't at all mean to inspire such an escalation, so I'll bow out again here. Cheers.

and I'd argue that most of the people complaining are telling you that we don't like the way Firaxis decided to tackle the problem and that we believe they could designed something different/better, which is not the same as us arguing that their design decisions isn't a way to address the intended problems.

Though in actuality I don't doubt that there are few somewhere out there who think that such design changes might not even be that effective at its intended goal, reviewing through this thread I don't see anyone arguing that Firaxis' design wouldn't fix the problems their intended to address but rather it's a lot of complaining about other subjective problems that arise for them from these changes.
 
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I’m not sure that the medieval age is really “missing.” Sure, you can break straight for the Distant Lands, but the first part of the age involves researching heraldry and knights and castles while the Normans start setting up their Motte and Baileys.
 
The handling of religion in Civ7 is my biggest disappointment with the game. I hope it gets overhauled top-to-bottom in an expansion.

For me, it’s culture.

Culture in Antiquity looks fun enough with spamming wonders, but the religion pathway in Exploration and archaeology in Modern look dull and half-baked.

There has been a lot of focus in militaristic gameplay, and I suspect a lot of players (if not the majority) are excited about this, but you can count me out of that.
 
For me, it’s culture.

Culture in Antiquity looks fun enough with spamming wonders, but the religion pathway in Exploration and archaeology in Modern look dull and half-baked.

There has been a lot of focus in militaristic gameplay, and I suspect a lot of players (if not the majority) are excited about this, but you can count me out of that.
I agree. I hope both religion and culture get improved in the future because I'm traditionally a culture-focused player, and I don't feel excited about that part of the game at all after Antiquity. I suspect I'll be more of an Economic player for the time being.
 
I agree. I hope both religion and culture get improved in the future because I'm traditionally a culture-focused player, and I don't feel excited about that part of the game at all after Antiquity. I suspect I'll be more of an Economic player for the time being.
The biggest positive for culture in exploration is that there are multiple reliquary beliefs to choose from. That's a solid base to innovate from. It could definitely use that innovation, but I can see a world where some reliquary beliefs don't neccessitate missionary whack-a-mole.
 
The biggest positive for culture in exploration is that there are multiple reliquary beliefs to choose from. That's a solid base to innovate from. It could definitely use that innovation, but I can see a world where some reliquary beliefs don't neccessitate missionary whack-a-mole.
Perhaps. I'd prefer to see religion more like in Civ4 and Civ5 where religion is not tied to any victory condition but something that can subtly help with all victory conditions. I'm even okay with it having a particularly close relationship with culture victory (I believe shared religion boosted tourism in both Civ5 and Civ6). I just don't like the increasingly gamey take on religion from Civ6 and Civ7. But it is true that alternate ways to gain relics is at least a step in the right direction.
 
Perhaps. I'd prefer to see religion more like in Civ4 and Civ5 where religion is not tied to any victory condition but something that can subtly help with all victory conditions. I'm even okay with it having a particularly close relationship with culture victory (I believe shared religion boosted tourism in both Civ5 and Civ6). I just don't like the increasingly gamey take on religion from Civ6 and Civ7. But it is true that alternate ways to gain relics is at least a step in the right direction.
Missionary whack-a-mole works better as an euphemism than a way to play civ for sure! But religion should be tied to culture in exploration for sure.

Imagine beliefs which did things like give you relics when you discover civs/wonders in the distant lands, or for triggering celebrations. So you didn't need to play religiously to do the relic game... I have more hope for culture in exploration than economy... Reliquary beliefs could free us from our missionary shackles! And I don't mean that as an euphemism either.
 
Culture should be focused on art and press imo. I think Civ 4 was on the right track with Hit Movies, Musicals, & Singles. But, resources are tedious and unfun. Archaeology I feel added more fun with the scavenger hunt aspect, but also more tedium. I also don't like religion being required on the cultural path. I would like to see Civ eventually have a cultural victory work similar to a space race victory where instead of researching techs, you research civics. These civics unlock World projects you can build, like an embassy or maybe a corporation in the modern age. I have an idea but it is long winded and very generalized. I would basically like to see an attempt to push your civs culture onto others, which helps them and helps you but propels you both forward which makes the cultural path more risky and less tedious. If they could figure out a way for it to be an artistic endeavor, I think that would be the best flavor.
 
Culture should be focused on art and press imo. I think Civ 4 was on the right track with Hit Movies, Musicals, & Singles. But, resources are tedious and unfun. Archaeology I feel added more fun with the scavenger hunt aspect, but also more tedium. I also don't like religion being required on the cultural path. I would like to see Civ eventually have a cultural victory work similar to a space race victory where instead of researching techs, you research civics. These civics unlock World projects you can build, like an embassy or maybe a corporation in the modern age. I have an idea but it is long winded and very generalized. I would basically like to see an attempt to push your civs culture onto others, which helps them and helps you but propels you both forward which makes the cultural path more risky and less tedious. If they could figure out a way for it to be an artistic endeavor, I think that would be the best flavor.
Good Idea I just hope that its a bit more open ended than the science victory which has you do a lot of very specific things each science playthrough. It makes sense for a science playthrough because the sciences are rooted in undeniable facts while culture is all about interpretation, a cultural victory can be won through a variety of different cultural exports
 
I do wish would carry over across eras though as a total turns count alongside the current turns in this era.
When I first noticed it on the Exploration Stream, I felt the same. But then after thinking on it for a while, I think it is better that way because turn count has a specific meaning for a age. While things you and the AI do affect to same extent the turn limit, you can have an idea that if you're playing on X speed, then you should expect the era to end around turn 150, and plans things accordingly.

Perhaps. I'd prefer to see religion more like in Civ4 and Civ5 where religion is not tied to any victory condition but something that can subtly help with all victory conditions. I'm even okay with it having a particularly close relationship with culture victory (I believe shared religion boosted tourism in both Civ5 and Civ6). I just don't like the increasingly gamey take on religion from Civ6 and Civ7. But it is true that alternate ways to gain relics is at least a step in the right direction.
I can see a lot of those problems being solved not by changing the current religion and other mechanics, but by just adding more variation to each legacy paths, lets say 2~3 ways for each legacy on each age on future expansions/updates (I think it is likely they will do it albeit may be a bit complicated in making the AI work well with all new ones). For example, if each exploration legacy had three different ways to progress on it, then you could have, for example, religion being important for all paths in at least one way, but also having at least one way for each that completely ignore religions. To have different things related with culture to get culture points, etc.
 
When I first noticed it on the Exploration Stream, I felt the same. But then after thinking on it for a while, I think it is better that way because turn count has a specific meaning for a age. While things you and the AI do affect to same extent the turn limit, you can have an idea that if you're playing on X speed, then you should expect the era to end around turn 150, and plans things accordingly.
Do the crises always start at a specific turn (depending on the game speed of course)?
 
Do the crises always start at a specific turn (depending on the game speed of course)?
No, it's affected by the Age progress (Tech, Civic, Legacy path...)
 
No, it's affected by the Age progress (Tech, Civic, Legacy path...)
Is that something that will be visible to the player? I guess what I'm asking is how well would the player be able to gauge when the crisis will occur?
 
When I first noticed it on the Exploration Stream, I felt the same. But then after thinking on it for a while, I think it is better that way because turn count has a specific meaning for a age. While things you and the AI do affect to same extent the turn limit, you can have an idea that if you're playing on X speed, then you should expect the era to end around turn 150, and plans things accordingly.
I agree, knowing how far through the era you are is def more important than how far through you are the entire game - also having a total turns number somewhere would just be handy too.
 
Is that something that will be visible to the player? I guess what I'm asking is how well would the player be able to gauge when the crisis will occur?

They said you have a sense that they are approaching. And there's a screenshot that shows a bar with (as I recall) markings for crisis imminent, crisis begins, crisis resolves.

Don't know how I'd go about tracking it down. Maybe in the Exploration Age livestream.
 
Is that something that will be visible to the player? I guess what I'm asking is how well would the player be able to gauge when the crisis will occur?
iirc there's a era progress thing in the top-left and a page which has an era progress bar with crisis milestones on it
 
They said you have a sense that they are approaching. And there's a screenshot that shows a bar with (as I recall) markings for crisis imminent, crisis begins, crisis resolves.
I would err on the side of subtler hints rather than obvious ones. Stellaris also has crises, and my most memorable games are the ones where the crisis came early and at an inopportune time when I wasn't fully prepared.
 
Around minute 15 of the Exploration Livestream, is a "Government" screen, with a bar running from "The Age Begins" to "The Crisis Begins," "The Crisis Intensifies," "The Crisis Culminates," with that bar filled in with increasing intensity of red. Assuming that one can see that bar filling in from the beginning of the age, one can have a pretty good guess when the crisis will begin.
 
I can see a lot of those problems being solved not by changing the current religion and other mechanics, but by just adding more variation to each legacy paths, lets say 2~3 ways for each legacy on each age on future expansions/updates (I think it is likely they will do it albeit may be a bit complicated in making the AI work well with all new ones). For example, if each exploration legacy had three different ways to progress on it, then you could have, for example, religion being important for all paths in at least one way, but also having at least one way for each that completely ignore religions. To have different things related with culture to get culture points, etc.
I'm all for additional legacy paths, but that won't resolve my dissatisfaction with the gamy take on religion.
 
For me, it’s culture.

Culture in Antiquity looks fun enough with spamming wonders, but the religion pathway in Exploration and archaeology in Modern look dull and half-baked.

There has been a lot of focus in militaristic gameplay, and I suspect a lot of players (if not the majority) are excited about this, but you can count me out of that.
The exploration age doesn't even feel like a culture path, the modern age version does but its still very limiting given how much stuff you could be able to do by the time you get to the modern age to win a cultural victory.
 
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