Ask the zealots

[Gori the Grey]

My idea for the thread is this.

Some people are generally interested Civ VII and its new features. I'll call them the casuals.

Some people (the ones I'm calling zealots), based on time and inclination, are following, and cross-indexing every last detail that gets revealed in release videos, developer talks, streamer videos, etc. Poring over everything that might be gleaned from any screenshot. And synthesizing what they find there: "Since coffee appears in a vegetated tile at 4:28 in Streamer B's video, and the release shows that one of Ben Franklin's leader traits is +1 g on cleared luxury tiles, that means that vegetation can be cleared under coffee; but how would that affect Augustus' trade bonus, mentioned at 9:28 in the first developers' video, with civs that have not cleared vegetation?"

I'm a casual, and there's no way I'm catching myself up at this point, let alone keeping up with new info as it gets released. But I would like to be able to ask questions of the zealots (self-identified, of course), who are on top of every last nuance of what can be known about the game. And maybe other casuals would as well. So I thought this thread could serve as a meeting grounds for those two groups.

If you zealots are game, here's my first question: Are the focuses that the game gives you in the early eras full-fledged victory conditions for someone who plays only that era? Could I play just the antiquity era, strive after the markers of success in that era, and count it as a victory if I am the civ that hits those markers? or hits them first?

And if so, will the Modern Era have era-specific victory conditions that are distinct from the overall victory conditions for a three-era game? I know we don't know too much about the later eras yet.

In the eras, is there an era-specific version of each of the overall victory conditions? i.e. a way of winning a economic victory, military victory, etc?

 

[moysturfurmer]

My idea for the thread is this.

Some people are generally interested Civ VII and its new features. I'll call them the casuals.

Some people (the ones I'm calling zealots), based on time and inclination, are following, and cross-indexing every last detail that gets revealed in release videos, developer talks, streamer videos, etc. Poring over everything that might be gleaned from any screenshot. And synthesizing what they find there: "Since coffee appears in a vegetated tile at 4:28 in Streamer B's video, and the release shows that one of Ben Franklin's leader traits is +1 g on cleared luxury tiles, that means that vegetation can be cleared under coffee; but how would that affect Augustus' trade bonus, mentioned at 9:28 in the first developers' video, with civs that have not cleared vegetation?"

I'm a casual, and there's no way I'm catching myself up at this point, let alone keeping up with new info as it gets released. But I would like to be able to ask questions of the zealots (self-identified, of course), who are on top of every last nuance of what can be known about the game. And maybe other casuals would as well. So I thought this thread could serve as a meeting grounds for those two groups.

If you zealots are game, here's my first question: Are the focuses that the game gives you in the early eras full-fledged victory conditions for someone who plays only that era? Could I play just the antiquity era, strive after the markers of success in that era, and count it as a victory if I am the civ that hits those markers? or hits them first?

And if so, will the Modern Era have era-specific victory conditions that are distinct from the overall victory conditions for a three-era game? I know we don't know too much about the later eras yet.

In the eras, is there an era-specific version of each of the overall victory conditions? i.e. a way of winning a economic victory, military victory, etc?

I believe each Age has its own Victory Conditions, as they are meant to be playable as individual games. What’s a little less clear, is if the Legacy Paths are the same as the Victory conditions of that Age. There are two panels in the Legacy Path screenshots we have seen, and one is labeled Victory Conditions, so it’s difficult to tell if a cultural “victory” in Antiquity is Build 7 Wonders, or something more.

Each Age will have different Victory conditions. Where you need to create a series of libraries housing Codices in Antiquity*, you’ll have to go to space in Modern.

Each Victory Condition is present across all three ages, but the mechanics of achieving said conditions change throughout each age.


*If the Science VC is the same as the Legacy Path VC

 

[Gori the Grey]

Thank you.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Given that the Release of the game is still over 4 months away, remember that any answer anyone thinks they have about the Details of anything in the game is still subject to Change: Victory Conditions, precise strengths, movements, bonuses, effects, etc. Graphics and Voice-Acting, being labor-intensive, are probably pretty well set, but I wouldn't bet the farm on anything else.

 

[AriochIV]

We don't know for sure, but it seems logical that:

a) The Legacy Path system doubles as a victory condition for a game that's limited to one Age, and --

b) The victory conditions in the Modern Age are also tied to the Legacy Path system.

Otherwise the Legacy Path would have no purpose in the last Age (either the Modern Age in a normal game or any Age in a single-Age game) since it's mostly about getting ahead in the next Age.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

Some people (the ones I'm calling zealots)

We call them Fanatics

 

[Gori the Grey]

We're all fanatics. The ones I have in mind are elite status fanatics!

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

In the eras, is there an era-specific version of each of the overall victory conditions? i.e. a way of winning a economic victory, military victory, etc?

I'm pretty sure we have an idea of what the Exploration Age culture victory might look like. The developers mentioned that Religion won't play a role until that age, and it will be the primary drive behind the culture victory. I wouldn't be surprised if tourism is the main thing for the Modern Age.

Corporations have a good chance of returning for the Modern Age economic victory.

 

[Josephias]

Corporations have a good chance of returning for the Modern Age economic victory.

I’d say even it is possible we have some sort of manufactured goods involved… just gut feeling

There are two panels in the Legacy Path screenshots we have seen, and one is labeled Victory Conditions, so it’s difficult to tell if a cultural “victory” in Antiquity is Build 7 Wonders, or something more.

I seem to recall we have seen this tab in some stream, and it show the progress status of each player in each of the legacy paths… so, that would make the answer easy…

(Not a full zealot myself, but I have Debater promotion - see signature )

 

[moysturfurmer]

I’d say even it is possible we have some sort of manufactured goods involved… just gut feeling

in the resources screen there’s a “show factories” filter, so you’re probably correct.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

in the resources screen there’s a “show factories” filter, so you’re probably correct.

Check off another point on the ol' Borisometer: I've been calling for replacement of 'Natural' Resources by manufactured products for years now,, because the amount of modern trade, amenities, home goods composed of 'natural' materials has been going steadily down for the past century and a half in both volume and value. . . .

 

[Psychotronics]

"Zealot" has a negative connotation in modern speak. How about we call them... Great Prophets? Or Apostles, at least

 

[moysturfurmer]

"Zealot" has a negative connotation in modern speak. How about we call them... Great Prophets? Or Apostles, at least

In fairness, there is nothing positive about my rabid refreshing of this forum every 30 minutes, desperate for another morsel of information.

 

[AriochIV]

"Zealot" has a negative connotation in modern speak. How about we call them... Great Prophets? Or Apostles, at least

There are no words that don't negative connotations to someone anymore. People work super hard at being offended.

 

[Zaarin]

People work super hard at being offended.

If you look everywhere for enemies, you will invariably find them.

 

[Trengilly]

We're all fanatics. The ones I have in mind are elite status fanatics!

You're the one with over 12,000 messages in the past 15 years! I feel like you should be answering questions for us!

 

[Gori the Grey]

You're the one with over 12,000 messages in the past 15 years! I feel like you should be answering questions for us!

They're almost all in OT, I'm afraid, and have little to do with the games.

 

[AriochIV]

How will combat on rivers work? What about navigable rivers? Will we have melee attacks between land and naval units?

Before it was an attack penalty for crossing a river, which is easy. But now that rivers are on a tile, it's not so clear when crossing a river actually happens. Cleanest solution IMO would be to have an attack and defence penalty for the unit on the river tile (which would represent the unit being split between both banks).

For a minor river, it is disadvantageous terrain. The unit defending on the river tile has a -5 combat penalty.

Navigable rivers count as water tiles, so a unit on a navigable river tile will be embarked. We haven't seen an example of an attack on an embarked unit, but it's reasonable to expect that it works the same way as in Civ6 -- the embarked unit probably has a significant penalty and can't fight back.

 

[AriochIV]

Do we know if there's a penalty for attacking from a river tile? Otherwise the only way to defend a river crossing is by counter attacking, which is a bit weird? And attacking along the same river would benefit the attacker, which is also odd.

We don't have an example, but I think it's reasonable to assume that it works the same way as in Civ6 -- it's an amphibious assault of an embarked unit attacking a unit on land. There is probably a penalty for the assaulting unit. The attacking unit first has to embark on to the navigable river tile, which probably ends its turn. While it is embarked on the river, it is vulnerable to being attacked from land from ranged units. The next turn, it can make an amphibious assault.

 

[AriochIV]

Oh sure, I meant attacking from a minor river though.

Advantageous or disadvantageous terrain only counts when you're defending; there's no penalty or bonus for attacking from a disadvantageous terrain or beneficial terrain tile.

So if you're defending near a minor river, you want to sit on the adjacent tile, and make the enemy stand on the river tile when you're fighting so that he gets a penalty when you counterattack. Also, minor rivers end movement, so he'll have to stop when he moves on the tile and you'll get the first attack.