Assyria!

crdvis16

Emperor
Joined
May 2, 2013
Messages
1,241
Hey everyone! I've been playing one of my favorite civs and wanted to make a post outlining the strategy I go for when playing them. I always feel like this forum could use more civ-specific strategy talk so here goes!

Ashurbanipal - Assyria

Treasures of Nineveh
When you conquer a City, gain either a Technology already known by the owner or, if impossible, a large Science boost. All Great Works produce +3 Science.

Siege Tower.

May only be built by the Assyrians. Unique support unit. Nearby owned units gain +40% Combat Strength versus cities when ST is adjacent to city, and +20% when it is two tiles from city. Starts with Medic 1 & 2 and Extra Sight. May only have two active at a time.

Royal Library, replaces School of Philosophy.

5 Culture, 3 Science and, 1 Great Scientist Points.
+1 Science for every 2 Citizens in the city, and all Libraries produce +3 Science. Free Library. Every Great Work of Writing you control grants +5 XP to units created in any City (maximum of +45 XP). Has 3 slots for Great Works of Writing, comes with Flood Tablet, and is available earlier than the School of Philosophy. +3 Production if Themed.

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General Strategy

Assyria is all about conquest. Each part of their kit is either benefiting from conquest or making conquest easier to accomplish. Free techs or tech boosts from city capture is a REALLY strong UA so I think it is important to make city capture your central goal in a game as Assyria. In case it is relevant I play Standard/Standard/Immortal and just use VP.

Long-term I think the best victory conditions to shoot for are straight domination or science victory. Assyria can lean into a domination win using its highly experienced units and siege towers to win wars and take capitals while keeping competitive in science as a result of those city captures. They can also pivot off to a science victory by terrorizing their local neighbors for science boosts throughout the game- all of those free techs or science boosts can allow you to sling-shot ahead in science and hit the important end-game techs first.

While Assyria has some synergy with great works generation (science and, in the case of GW of Writing, unit experience) there isn't anything else in their kit that is going to help you generate tourism directly so I don't really see them as a culture victory candidate even if specifically targeting high culture neighbors for destruction can make culture victories easier to come by.

I don't see any real reason to pursue a diplomatic victory as Assyria. I prefer to eat CSs for science as Assyria rather than curry their favor for votes.

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Policy Choices

I like Assyria's synergy with Authority more than any other ancient era tree. The most important thing to do as Assyria is to take cities and Authority sets you up for that better than the other trees by making your military stronger and helping you benefit more from wining battles and taking cities. I can see arguments for Tradition/Progress as well. Tradition will net you great Writers sooner and can often warmonger initially quite well as the capital can pump out units faster early on. Progress could help you capitalize on all those cities you will eventually own and buy great Writers with faith in the Industrial age. However, if you plan to warmonger all game long then I think Authority is going to pay off the best.

For the renaissance trees I think the choice is just between Artistry and Fealty. Artistry will help you generate some more Writers for unit experience and hit the +45exp cap sooner while Fealty can help you benefit from the Holy city and religion you take from a neighbor (you shouldn't bother founding one yourself in my opinion as there is too much else to spend hammers on early game). I don't see any reason to go Statecraft- you should either be demanding tribute from CSs early game or conquering them later on.

Industrial branches are also relatively open to circumstances. I certainly tend to favor Imperialism for Assyria but I could see Rationalism being a good pick if you're realizing a science victory is the way to go or Industry being a solid choice all around especially for your economy. I think Imperialism is almost always a good pick for Assyria, though. You should never stop taking cities and fighting so Imperialism is more guaranteed to be of benefit.

Once you are picking your ideology I think you need to have figured out your victory condition. If you're going domination then Autocracy is likely the best way to put yourself over the top. If you've decided a science victory could be faster or safer then Order is likely the best route or possibly Freedom if geopolitics demand it.

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Early Game

In my games I pretty much commit to Authority as Assyria and that will largely dictate how I play early on.

I really like to tech Mining->Bronze Working right off the bat to both unlock spearmen and grab Statue of Zeus. Spearmen are a dominant unit in the very early game and only start to fall behind somewhat when Horsemen appear. They are really good for demanding early tribute from the immediate CS neighbors with their relatively high combat strength especially if the CS still has only warriors. Demanding tribute should be a big priority in the early game aside from grabbing barbarian camps ASAP as it is your main source of early culture. Statue of Zeus plays right in to helping you take cities and gives a free barracks and since I tech straight to it I find that I can pretty reliably get it (the main barrier to getting is if you can get the culture for unlocking 2 policies quickly enough and that largely depends on being able to tribute and/or get a few barbarian camps).

My initial build order is usually monument->shrine followed by warriors and spearmen as spearmen become available up to my initial unit cap (usually about 5 spearmen total right off the bat). I'll fit a worker in there as soon as I have tiles worth improving which just depends on your initial area. The shrine is just there to get me an early game pantheon- I have no intention of founding my own religion but pantheons can be quite strong for their yields anyway.

Effectively using those initial 5 spearmen is key to the early game. They should be capable of getting tribute from nearby CSs (declare war and kill units of the CS if that is needed to lower their military and make them more reasonable to your demands) and grab any barbarian camps in your area. Both of those activities are key to getting culture and making your way through the authority tree in a timely fashion.

After Bronze Working, my next tech goal is typically whatever techs allow me to improve nearby resources or get important buildings. Trapping for camp resources or Calendar for plantations. Next is to grab Military Theory for both horsemen and for siege towers in the event that someone has been silly enough to provide me with a forward settled city to take. A siege tower along with a few spearmen will easily take down pre-wall cities- no catapults or archers required to whittle it down.

I don't prioritize Pottery for settlers very early on. I usually only plan to settle a few cities (probably 4ish total) in order to gain important strategic resources early on and secure my lux monopoly. After that I prefer that the AI settle more cities for me to conquer.

Next is Writing for a Royal Library to get that Great Writer experience bonus as well as make the libraries you build in any cities get their +3 science steroid. This will help you coast through the early game tech tree. I typically also reach for Drama and Poetry to get my Writer's guilds setup ASAP. After that I pretty much focus on the bottom of the tech tree the rest of the game for the big, impactful military techs. Unlocking some of the strongest units before your opponents (Knights, Musketmen/Gatling, Cannons, etc) can make a difficult war become a relatively easy one.

I should also mention that swordsmen/longswordsmen could also be honorary UUs for Assyria. That free Shock I coupled with Assyria's experience bonuses means that swordsmen/longswordsmen get a headstart on their way to March. March coupled with Siege Tower's Medic II creates a unit that is healing for +15hp every turn while in enemy territory (and more in neutral/owned territory). I typically build as many swordsmen/longswordsmen as I have iron at the expense of any other units. Having Medic II siege towers also means that ranged units (who are often saddled with going down the medic line as support units) or more free to pursue other promotion lines and potentially get to things like +1 range sooner. It is imperative to use your siege towers well and it is especially important to not allow your siege towers to die, ESPECIALLY once they obsolete and cannot be replaced. Be VERY careful with them as the AI will try to pick them off if left unguarded.



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Mid/Late Game

Target Alhambra and Brandenburg Gate if possible to stack even more free promotions/exp and have newly created units soon getting 3-4 promotions on creation.

Never stop warring and taking cities to keep the science engine chugging. Target the bottom portion of the tech tree to war faster/better and rely on spies/UA to back fill the top.

Decide on either domination or science victories at some point and run with it.
 
Very interesting. I like to play Tradition Assyria and turtle until late game when I reach the cap for unit XP then spam an experienced army to hit on nearby civ and CS for science. With bonus science from GW, combine with early great people from Trad and Beauty you wouldnt be behind in tech.
 
I really like to tech Mining->Bronze Working right off the bat to both unlock spearmen and grab Statue of Zeus. Spearmen are a dominant unit in the very early game and only start to fall behind somewhat when Horsemen appear. They are really good for demanding early tribute from the immediate CS neighbors with their relatively high combat strength especially if the CS still has only warriors. Demanding tribute should be a big priority in the early game aside from grabbing barbarian camps ASAP as it is your main source of early culture. Statue of Zeus plays right in to helping you take cities and gives a free barracks and since I tech straight to it I find that I can pretty reliably get it.

Assyria is indeed a flexible civ and any authority start where you can demand tribute to a bunch of CSs can work out, but the civ itself has exactly 0 advantage toward this strategy over any other. I mean, you could build a bunch of spears with Gandhi or Elizabeth and make it work (actually, it'd work even better thanks to an early pantheon for production or culture, or with an extra spy to grab techs you're ignoring... but not the point). Without an early UU your military power is going to fall behind quite soon, and your supply limit will then be filled by spearmen instead of those shock-powered swordmen for example. Statue of Zeus is imo the least needed wonder for Assyria, you need help killing units not cities and the free barrack is also not important if you want to be aggressive early and need horsemen/siege towers and don't plan to skip Military Theory. Building SoZ in reasonable time also means sitting on about 3 spearmen for some time, and if those aren't UUs then heavy tributes might be out of reach for a long time.

I think the strongest part of Assyria kit is the Royal Library and I like to build it asap: that usually means rush writing while settling 4 progress/authority or 3 tradition cities to hit the population requirement and only then catch up with military, that will be pretty easy thanks to the huge science you get out of it, and can start churning out promoted units. Even better I'd wait a lil more before going on the offensive (remember, no UUs and no combat bonus to actually kill the enemy forces before taking cities), go for Drama and attack once you already have a tech lead on the opponents, usually in Medieval depending on nearby UU users. I think conquering 2-4 enemy cities in classical by going all in military attempting to steal ancient era techs while delaying the UB (among other things, it's worth 13:c5science:+50%:c5citizen: translated to :c5science:, and 5 :c5culture:) provides less science than a more patient approach.

I like to play Tradition Assyria

Same.

and turtle until late game

After the 'traditional' beeline for Drama->Education and depending on neighbours/strategic resources and if I get the Oracle or not, my offensive phase might start as soon as Chivalry/Steel or by Gunpowder but I'm not waiting any longer to get the UA rolling.
 
After the 'traditional' beeline for Drama->Education and depending on neighbours/strategic resources and if I get the Oracle or not, my offensive phase might start as soon as Chivalry/Steel or by Gunpowder but I'm not waiting any longer to get the UA rolling.
It seems going Tradition I always lack the units supply to wage war effectively, so I need to rely on getting the Brandenburge Gate to be able to fight, before that I only take some city states maybe for the science needed for getting BG.
 
Assyria is definitely viable with Tradition and Tourism.

As for Authority - imo the biggest advantage of it for Assyria is early Production that helps to rush Libraries before Forge+Arena combo and get that huge Science boost. On top of that i would take Wisdom as my pantheon to get to super Libraries even faster.

And then the real power spike of Assiria is with Knights. You use you science to get there supewr fast, you are guaranteed to get Alhambra and you have enough production with Authority to build essential buildings. Then you build an army of Knights and fight against Horesemen and Spearmen. 2 vassals guaranteed.
 
Interesting to hear the perspective of others with Assyria! I could totally see a focus on GWs and science first being used to leverage military success later on. The +3 science from great works and on libraries is pretty strong, especially early game so getting it out ASAP has its merits.

The main thing that strikes me as odd about a patient approach to warmongering with Assyria is that you're basically just playing without the strongest part of your UA in the beginning. That seems less than ideal?

Assyria is indeed a flexible civ and any authority start where you can demand tribute to a bunch of CSs can work out, but the civ itself has exactly 0 advantage toward this strategy over any other. I mean, you could build a bunch of spears with Gandhi or Elizabeth and make it work (actually, it'd work even better thanks to an early pantheon for production or culture, or with an extra spy to grab techs you're ignoring... but not the point).

Assyria has 0 advantages when pursuing a strategy focused on taking cities? That statement ignores their UA and UU which are both targeted towards taking cities. I don't really understand your point here. Or are you specifically saying that there is no reason to go Authority and rush spearmen for tribute? I think rushing spearmen is pretty standard with Authority openings as it's the easiest way to get your culture engine going via tribute early on. I'm going Authority to wage war early on (taking advantage of Assyria's UA/UU) so it makes sense to rush spearmen. Spearmen are also the best unit very early on for both combat and taking down cities when the AI largely has warriors and archers, especially coupled with a UU that allows them to attack cities themselves effectively and heal up between hits. If you want to take advantage of Assyria's UA/UU right off the bat then I think Authority/Spearmen ASAP is the way to do it.

Without an early UU your military power is going to fall behind quite soon, and your supply limit will then be filled by spearmen instead of those shock-powered swordmen for example. Statue of Zeus is imo the least needed wonder for Assyria, you need help killing units not cities and the free barrack is also not important if you want to be aggressive early and need horsemen/siege towers and don't plan to skip Military Theory. Building SoZ in reasonable time also means sitting on about 3 spearmen for some time, and if those aren't UUs then heavy tributes might be out of reach for a long time.

Without an early UU? I think you're seriously underestimating the siege tower. Medic II right off the bat is no joke in warfare and a 40% increase in city attack means that you could potentially skip early siege units all together and just use spearmen to take down early cities. Assyria does very well in early combat with a single siege tower in support, including killing units.

SoZ is not critical to the strategy but if you're beelining the tech and can get it pretty consistently then why not? You aren't losing a ton in the way of production since you get a free Barracks and the extra city damage just makes it that much easier to take down cities (which is the primary goal of this strategy). Also, just a few spearmen is enough for heavy tribute because you rushed the tech and the CS you are demanding from likely has a warrior or two at most. Later when the CS has spearmen of their own you need to come with a larger force but by then you will have a larger force to do so.

I think the strongest part of Assyria kit is the Royal Library and I like to build it asap: that usually means rush writing while settling 4 progress/authority or 3 tradition cities to hit the population requirement and only then catch up with military, that will be pretty easy thanks to the huge science you get out of it, and can start churning out promoted units. Even better I'd wait a lil more before going on the offensive (remember, no UUs and no combat bonus to actually kill the enemy forces before taking cities), go for Drama and attack once you already have a tech lead on the opponents, usually in Medieval depending on nearby UU users. I think conquering 2-4 enemy cities in classical by going all in military attempting to steal ancient era techs while delaying the UB (among other things, it's worth 13+50% translated to , and 5 ) provides less science than a more patient approach.

I think you're right that Royal Library first will result in more science early on. But I'm not sure if that's better or worse when compared to going warmonger first and taking cities right away. You might be less ahead in science but more cities earlier can often become science positive sooner themselves, not to mention the value in crippling your neighbors sooner rather than later.
 
Assyria is definitely viable with Tradition and tourism.

Agreed, especially when warmongers often accidentally win tourism victories. Assyria doesn't have anything to directly generate extra tourism like the Brazil and Arabias but they could still pull it off via conquest and strong science.
 
Assyria has 0 advantages when pursuing a strategy focused on taking cities? That statement ignores their UA and UU which are both targeted towards taking cities. I don't really understand your point here.

I meant Assyria doesn't do better than any other civ with a spearmen+authority start. They don't research iron working faster, don't unlock a better spearman, don't produce such spearman or SoZ quicker. You can play any civ that way and it works because it's a solid strategy in the right circumstances, but it's not taking advantage of Assyria's perks: they boom later.

Then there's the opportunity cost of building the Siege Tower: the UU is 100 hammers for a medic II and better siege, not worth it when you can bring a promoted scout or archer and can invest those hammers into something that can fight, and Military Theory is not on the path for the Library. At least for the early rushes (those worth a free ancient tech), the tower is setting you back; later on (by medieval) when its price becomes a fraction of normal units it becomes a solid addition to the army. I simply wouldn't build/buy one early on.

SoZ is not critical to the strategy but if you're beelining the tech and can get it pretty consistently then why not?

Because I'm not beelining the tech :p
 
I meant Assyria doesn't do better than any other civ with a spearmen+authority start. They don't research iron working faster, don't unlock a better spearman, don't produce such spearman or SoZ quicker. You can play any civ that way and it works because it's a solid strategy in the right circumstances, but it's not taking advantage of Assyria's perks: they boom later.

IMO Assyria's biggest strength is the free techs/science booms from capping cities. The strategy I laid out seeks to capitalize on that strength as soon and as often as possible. Authority and a spearmen/SoZ rush lead directly into taking cities right away. They facilitate being able to benefit from Assyria's UA as soon as possible. So Assyria does benefit more than other civs by going that route because otherwise their UA just reads "+3 science from great works" for more of the early game.

Then there's the opportunity cost of building the Siege Tower: the UU is 100 hammers for a medic II and better siege, not worth it when you can bring a promoted scout or archer and can invest those hammers into something that can fight, and Military Theory is not on the path for the Library. At least for the early rushes (those worth a free ancient tech), the tower is setting you back; later on (by medieval) when its price becomes a fraction of normal units it becomes a solid addition to the army. I simply wouldn't build/buy one early on.

How is an upgraded scout or archer a replacement for the siege tower? It takes time to get to medic II with those other units, and even if those units have medic II they still don't give a 40% buff to attacking cities. It is also much easier to position for maximum effect with its ability to stack with other units- a scout is going to have more trouble healing multiple units at a time and an archer with its lack of mobility is going to do even worse. With archer medics you usually need multiple archers following that promotion path to do the same job a siege tower would do. Having a siege tower instead means your archers can get to +range or other higher level promotions faster and not have to be relegated to the medic/support line.

Also, taking cities very early in the game likely means you are attacking with melee in which case the siege tower is even more important, both in making those melee attacks more efficient (taking less damage from the city due to the increase to CS) and in helping your melee heal up between attacks faster. I'd probably argue that the siege tower's effect can be most pronounced as soon as it is unlocked and you have a viable city to attack. I'd rather have 4 spearmen and a siege tower attacking a city than 5 spearmen in the early game. I'd also rather have 4 spearmen and a siege tower than 5 spearmen in a head to head fight without a city involved at all because the healing is that strong.

Because I'm not beelining the tech

I think we established that it wouldn't make any sense at all to beeline construction for the strategy you use with Assyria- I totally agree. The only reason it makes sense is in the context of the strategy I laid out where authority->spearmen facilitates an early aggression strategy and SoZ just adds to that even more.
 
My own experience with Assyria has been that there's no need to rush the early start.

Assyria's kit allows you to generate more early science than most other civs if you focus on infrastructure early. I prioritize the top of classical so I can get Royal Library and the Writer's Guild. Once I have generated 2 GWriters, and combine them with my free GW, that's when I start going ballistic. This usually ends up being around the time I have filled out the bottom of classical and gotten to chivalry/steel. Oracle is a big help for filling out the rest of classical, so that's the first wonder I ever attempt. Alhambra is the obvious next priority

Assyria's biggest power spike is late medieval/early renaissance, imo. Tercios and cannons come out on the same tech, and that's around the point where you are getting 25-40 free XP on your new units. If you time it right, you can get Longswords out and immediately promote them to march. Upgrade them when Gunpowder is finished and then go nuts.
 
If I were using Authority Assyria, I would rush military theory instead of bronze working. Horsemen are stronger than spearmen and with the assistance of the siege tower, they will have little trouble taking unwalled cities. I will need pops to be able to build the Royal Library anyway and I dont have a lot of pops with Authority so I can take a detour into mathematics for more fight power before going for writing. If youre success with warring early on, the science from UA can be quite significant.
But in my experience, and I believe other deity players share it as well, that you cannot take any city from AI in ancient era without an UU, its just not possible when 1 warrior killed is replaced by 2 :crazyeye:... Or at least you need fast units to kill (horseman, skirmisher) rather than tanking units which good for taking damage but not very strong on offensive (spearman).
 
I really like Assyria. The Royal Library is just so disgusting. He is a great candidate for playing a peaceful early game with progress or tradition, then taking imperialism and going on a rampage. I don't think he is the best candidate for an authority-spearmen-zeus opening, but its still viable. Sometimes you can snag a city the moment its settled, a single free tech makes a huge difference. Siege towers are kind of expensive to use in ancient era, so but by medieval its a solid bonus.
But in my experience, and I believe other deity players share it as well, that you cannot take any city from AI in ancient era without an UU, its just not possible when 1 warrior killed is replaced by 2 :crazyeye:... Or at least you need fast units to kill (horseman, skirmisher) rather than tanking units which good for taking damage but not very strong on offensive (spearman).
If you go really fast you can usually get the city. Like, scout his capital, trackt he settler, and have 3 or 4 spearmen ready to hit fast and hard.

In terms of grinding down an army and winning a war without a UU, it can take a really long time. Maybe if the terrain let's you get some really good archer positions? Non-UU melee units don't really work because they have to stop to heal, and by the time they are healed the AI rebuilt all the warriors you killed.
 
I'd say spearman rush as Assyria is a high risk strategy compare to Royal Library rush. If you cannot take cities with spearman then you will be behind really far, and when AI can field Knight then its pretty much game over. It can be strong if you can take a few cities though. Going Royal Library you will have very reliable source of science that will make you at least stay afloat if not being ahead.
 
I really like the Idea of this threat to create some kind of Primer for one civ at a time. I know this from different Decks in Trading Card games and I think it could be really great, to improve your play if you have a Civ you like or plan to play.

Especially with the changes getting smaller with the "goigng for Gold".
 
I'd say spearman rush as Assyria is a high risk strategy compare to Royal Library rush. If you cannot take cities with spearman then you will be behind really far, and when AI can field Knight then its pretty much game over. It can be strong if you can take a few cities though. Going Royal Library you will have very reliable source of science that will make you at least stay afloat if not being ahead.

I would agree about it being pretty risky. It's paid off in my recent games with Assyria but I could see it falling flat too. Like any strategy it probably depends on your neighbors. If your neighbors have early UU then going on the offensive right away is probably a bad idea.
 
With Assyria’s synergy with GW’s in mind, is it ever worth it taking Progress instead of Tradition? Tradition will give you more pop, more culture, more GW’s.. all necessary for the Royal Library to shine. Is this line of thinking too absolute for civ?
 
With Assyria’s synergy with GW’s in mind, is it ever worth it taking Progress instead of Tradition? Tradition will give you more pop, more culture, more GW’s.. all necessary for the Royal Library to shine. Is this line of thinking too absolute for civ?
Even if all great works for everyone gave some extra science, I don't think it would mean tradition is always better than progress. Your great work benefits take a pretty long time to stack up, regardless of your social policies.

In my opinion, the only civ whose synergy with tradition is strong enough to rule out other policy trees is Arabia.
 
With Assyria’s synergy with GW’s in mind, is it ever worth it taking Progress instead of Tradition? Tradition will give you more pop, more culture, more GW’s.. all necessary for the Royal Library to shine. Is this line of thinking too absolute for civ?

I think it's pretty easy to think of situations where progress would be better than tradition for Assyria. The +3 science from great works is strongest early on and tradition will net you a handful of great works beyond what progress would get you. But if my starting location had lots of room to expand or my starting location wasn't likely good for growing my capital then I would probably be justified in going progress over tradition anyway. Also, +3 science to libraries from the Royal Library scales with more cities so is progress friendly.

It's probably impossible to say "civ X should never use policy tree Y" and be 100% right- one can typically think of counter examples pretty easily.
 
Even if all great works for everyone gave some extra science, I don't think it would mean tradition is always better than progress. Your great work benefits take a pretty long time to stack up, regardless of your social policies.

In my opinion, the only civ whose synergy with tradition is strong enough to rule out other policy trees is Arabia.

It might be a stretch, but warmonger Arabia using war winning for his historic events might choose authority, kinda like Aztec peacing wars out frequently for golden ages. Maybe add in neighbors that are aggressive that you feel threatened by and a capital starting location that lacks good food sources tilting the balance toward authority?

But just on paper without setting up specific circumstances with terrain/neighbors I would agree that tradition for Arabia is pretty much 100%.
 
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