Autumn 2017 Patch General Discussion

Can anyone confirm if the government legacy bonuses have been fixed?
Is the GP screen now really fitted into the screen and needs no more scrolling left/right?
Also, are there any unmentioned changes in the patch?

The legacy is fixed, it was one of the first things I checked and it was working properly on two different occasions for me.

GP still requires some scrolling? I will have to check again but I'm almost certain its not all on one screen, maybe different resolutions impact this?
 
GP still requires some scrolling? I will have to check again but I'm almost certain its not all on one screen, maybe different resolutions impact this?

Yeah, that's exactly how it works. If you can play the game at the highest possible resolutions, the window fits all the great people perfectly without scrolling. It's once you drop too low that it starts looking garbage.

It seems like Firaxis doesn't intend to come up with a better solution than a scroll bar for those with lower specs, which is a bit disappointing. At least if they'd designed the window to display the GPs vertically and scroll that way too it wouldn't look so stupid on lower resolutions :rolleyes:
 
Yeah, that's exactly how it works. If you can play the game at the highest possible resolutions, the window fits all the great people perfectly without scrolling. It's once you drop too low that it starts looking garbage.

It seems like Firaxis doesn't intend to come up with a better solution than a scroll bar for those with lower specs, which is a bit disappointing. At least if they'd designed the window to display the GPs vertically and scroll that way too it wouldn't look so stupid on lower resolutions :rolleyes:

So you say that when I get a new computer, I should expect some of the things in the game to look much smaller? :D
 
Civ 6 UI is still in alpha, and they just added more easy modding for it so that people who are better at UI can make it better. That's pretty rough, but it's the implication when it's still this junk after a year.

# of clicks is a big deal in end user interactions.

There is nothing about queues, waypoints, sortable menus you can interact with rather than static ones (and change city builds from there, if you want), competent unit cycling (that doesn't jerk you all over the board), or cutting down on forced prompts while playing a turn that could be "too complicated" for any rational human being. Not even a 10 year old with sub-average reading skills would suffer from these features, though a more experienced user would utilize them more/better.

But to do that, Firaxis would have to try. Instead, they're getting beaten by an also-bad Paradox UI that also hides information and lies to you on occasion...but at least makes an effort to reduce the sheer number of inputs for the player. It's not good. Grant province/religious conversions/etc in that game are poorly designed. Firaxis didn't have a high bar. But it still stumbled over it.

Aha. Your "alpha", is my "beta" is someone else's "completely broken and that's
why the whole franchise is doomed damn you in all caps Firaxis."

I certainly agree with you that the number of clicks to achieve particular
actions is a very reasonable, sensible measure of the UI.
However, that measure must also take into account all of the possible actions,
weighted according to how often they are needed and used by the whole spectrum
of players.
Experienced players, or those with a preference for, say religious civs, will
want to see different information and choose different parts of the UI more
often than inexperienced players, or ones who focus more on military, or empire
building.
Neither you nor I have any idea of the shape of those distributions, and so we
have no objective measure of the success or failure of the UI as a whole. All we
have are our own opinions and preferences and those expressed here on cfc and
other forums. As always, we're far more likely to hear from the dissatisfied
than from those who have no significant problems with the UI.

Personally, within an hour or two of playing a new version, I find navigating
the UI second nature. I know where to expect that a panel or dialog will appear,
and I've started moving the mouse pointer towards that area without thinking.
I'm not discounting that the ease or difficulty of making choices through the
UI actually influences the style of game I end up preferring to play
because I'm essentially a lazy bastard (aka "mathematician")!

Strident criticism, or unthinking, glowing praise for the UI without an
objective basis is amusing though.
Can you imagine Firaxis devs rushing to recode the UI because some deity level
players grumbled about the UI not being ideal for their way of achieving a
domination victory on the large maps they prefer?
Or that the Paradox UI would be much better because someone said it would help
keep track of gold earned from trade routes?
Or for a myriad of other self-interested reasons?

I do wish they'd roll out tools and information that would make it easier for
modders to do far more than they can now with the UI and all other parts of the
game.
But I can also understand that might not be a good use of their resources if
they have plans to include major enhacements over the next year or two. Changing
the UI might not be as simple as adding branches to the end of existing data
structures.

OTOH, the lack of modding tools is making Gedemon unhappy, and that is
unnecessarily cruel and quite unacceptable (in French and in all caps)!
 
So you say that when I get a new computer, I should expect some of the things in the game to look much smaller? :D

Not necessarily smaller, but higher resolutions will cause the graphics to look sharper and allow more space to fit things on screen. I think a lot of the issues people are having with the new motion blur on the leaders is tied to resolution and framerate too - the smoother and sharper the graphics are overall the less, uh, "smeary" the effect will look.

As for the GP window - I don't even think it looks too good when you can fit the entire display onscreen at once without scrolling. There's too much information to take in at once and it still literally fills the entire screen from one side to the other unlike just about every other popup in the game.
 
Not necessarily smaller, but higher resolutions will cause the graphics to look sharper and allow more space to fit things on screen. I think a lot of the issues people are having with the new motion blur on the leaders is tied to resolution and framerate too - the smoother and sharper the graphics are overall the less, uh, "smeary" the effect will look.

As for the GP window - I don't even think it looks too good when you can fit the entire display onscreen at once without scrolling. There's too much information to take in at once and it still literally fills the entire screen from one side to the other unlike just about every other popup in the game.

I concur... on my 4K screen, the blur looks just fine.
 
No more lags/freezes when changing policies/governments. \o/
I 've experienced this too. I'm loving it! Before you had to wait up to one minute in late game (I'm often playing with 12-20 civs) and now it feels so smooth that I got confused several times:crazyeye:

What's the word on the maritime city-states in the scenario? Are they a new type of city-state boosting harbors? Or are they of the already existing types (industrial, etc) whose bonuses improve coastal production/commerce/etc?

I've been wondering about the maritime city states too! You could clearly see an anchor on some of the city state banners.. I don't recall this being a topic in the patch notes discussion... any information regarding the new city state type?
Is it active already or maybe a sneak peak at an upcoming feature?
 
Not sure where you've seen it. But it might be a scenario actually, there are occasionally things in them which never appear in the main game, like gold resource, or city-states with no suzerain bonus.
 
Having said that, I was archer-rushing Scythia (you archer-rush her before she horse-rushes you, right?), and despite having units garrisoned, she was counter-attacking me with scouts and... a builder :lol: Well, at least she was counter-attacking or it looked so. She literally moved the builder out of the city towards my warrior who happily captured it.

Interesting that you point that out. I was observing a war last night between Kongo and Sumeria. Kongo moved a settler out of its capital right next to a war cart, which of course took it the next turn.

I sure wish there was an option to increase the number of religions. Map size alone shouldn't be the criteria. Large map with 13 civs and low sea level should at least have 7, and I still think that there should be almost as many religions as there are civs.... I may be modding that one still.
 
I played a handful of turns of a new game last night, declared war on a neighbor, and I did find the fight tougher than before.
 
In the ideal world the AI should play on par with a good human player on Prince. No extra settler, tech, bonus etc. All equal 1:1.
How much closer are we to that situation with the new patch?
 
Just a question of clarification, as I may have missed a post, but have we reached cross-platform parity yet? Mac and PC players can be friends, after all. :mischief:
 
Another cool fix in the autumn patch which I already discovered in the dev stream is that conquering a city no longer has this annoying waiting time before it where the game processes the city owner change.

EDIT: Also I wanna mention that I am no longer having the bug with the Legacy bonuses of governments
 
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So is it being established that screen resolution has a lot to do with it? For what it's worth I have a 1440p and everything seems fine.
 
Aha. Your "alpha", is my "beta" is someone else's "completely broken and that's
why the whole franchise is doomed damn you in all caps Firaxis."

I certainly agree with you that the number of clicks to achieve particular
actions is a very reasonable, sensible measure of the UI.
However, that measure must also take into account all of the possible actions,
weighted according to how often they are needed and used by the whole spectrum
of players.
Experienced players, or those with a preference for, say religious civs, will
want to see different information and choose different parts of the UI more
often than inexperienced players, or ones who focus more on military, or empire
building.
Neither you nor I have any idea of the shape of those distributions, and so we
have no objective measure of the success or failure of the UI as a whole. All we
have are our own opinions and preferences and those expressed here on cfc and
other forums. As always, we're far more likely to hear from the dissatisfied
than from those who have no significant problems with the UI.

Personally, within an hour or two of playing a new version, I find navigating
the UI second nature. I know where to expect that a panel or dialog will appear,
and I've started moving the mouse pointer towards that area without thinking.
I'm not discounting that the ease or difficulty of making choices through the
UI actually influences the style of game I end up preferring to play
because I'm essentially a lazy bastard (aka "mathematician")!

Strident criticism, or unthinking, glowing praise for the UI without an
objective basis is amusing though.
Can you imagine Firaxis devs rushing to recode the UI because some deity level
players grumbled about the UI not being ideal for their way of achieving a
domination victory on the large maps they prefer?
Or that the Paradox UI would be much better because someone said it would help
keep track of gold earned from trade routes?
Or for a myriad of other self-interested reasons?

I do wish they'd roll out tools and information that would make it easier for
modders to do far more than they can now with the UI and all other parts of the
game.
But I can also understand that might not be a good use of their resources if
they have plans to include major enhacements over the next year or two. Changing
the UI might not be as simple as adding branches to the end of existing data
structures.

OTOH, the lack of modding tools is making Gedemon unhappy, and that is
unnecessarily cruel and quite unacceptable (in French and in all caps)!

I said alpha, meant alpha, and stand by alpha, because the civ 6 UI is trash and if Firaxis actually prioritized end user experience with it, that's about where they'd be rating it. They don't, and I consider that a mistake.

Let's not get into fuzzy logic with "preferences". Information presentation is not rocket science. Players will have different preferences, but a UI that presents information the player wants cleanly and allows gameplay with fewer inputs to accomplish the same tasks is objectively better.

Paradox and Firaxis share some objective UI fails that put these games well below acceptable standards in other game genres:

  • Both titles obscure/hide game rules, such that even if an experienced player tries to discern them using only game UI...they can't. This puts Firaxis on the level of Electronic Arts, in that you can and should trust forum posters and YouTubers over the information the game presents. I trust Victoria on this forum about civ 6 mechanics much more than I trust the devs or game UI, despite our disagreements on some matters. Victoria has consistently worked to present information here accurately (that the game should provide...), and it holds up when you play for yourself. I can't trust the devs to that same extent, because their proven track record is measurably worse.
  • Both titles in some cases allow the game to present information that is wrong or misleading. Stuff like "ranged attack = move and don't attack" (Civ 5/6) or "60>60" (one of many pdox fails, partially patched, but still shows up regarding some mechanic interactions)
  • Both titles have serious basic input issues, such as religious conversions in EU 4 or ordering cities for what to build next in civ 6. In this regard, civ 6 gets its pants pulled down by civ 4. I'm stating this as fact. Nobody, including Ed Beach himself, could make a coherent case that the city list + build options in civ 6 are as good from a UI perspective as civ 4. It used to be possible to view your highest 10 production cities and assign them builds from the same screen, including giving multiple cities the same build at the same time...all while not denying players the option to simply go into 1 city like you *must* now or changing the presentation of the main GUI in any capacity.
  • Speaking of earlier civ games, they had less dysfunctional unit cycling. Civ 6 devs apparently realized it didn't work, but not enough to delay precious DLC to make a default feature actually functional.
  • There is no excuse for forced prompts, end turn =/= end turn, or false presentation of what happens when you right click, just like there's no excuse for Pdox showing a battle will occur then not having it happen. These aren't okay. People who say otherwise are wrong.

There's plenty of subjective stuff too, but I'd rather not get into that. The obvious and utter failing of the basics are the more significant problem anyway. Trade routes under a *competent* design could accomplish exactly what they do right now with < 1/5 of the inputs if the design team put even a little effort into the end user experience interacting with them. Ditto for cities. Adopting UI changes that decent UI devs used > a decade ago would turn several minute tasks in game into 10 second or less tasks...many times throughout each game.

In measured time, it is not hyperbole to say that the variance in UI quality amounts to hour(s) per game. This isn't a newbie vs expert comparison and it is disingenuous to make it about that. Newbies don't need to navigate extra menus dozens of times, scatter all over the place with broken cycling, or have the rules hidden from them in a strategy title any more than 2000+ hour experts need that trash.

For comparison, Rimworld is in alpha. It hides fewer rules, has the UI lie about the situation less frequently, and has fewer instances of rote mundane inputs where UI could simply eliminate them w/o changing the game's strategy (it's not perfect in this regard, but it's obviously far in front of civ 6). Hamstrung (to this point) modders had no trouble outperforming Firaxis either in terms of UI...this patch note + relatively low priority for a broken UI over a YEAR is Firaxis all but waving the white flag on UI and saying that the community should fix it because they either can't or aren't willing to invest the resources to do it.

I do not respect that at all. The UI is a core part of a game and the user's experience, and the UI in this game is soundly dumpstered by its own predecessors in the series and small dev teams from 20+ years ago. I see no reason to respect that standard or the market which finds it acceptable.
 
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