B-25 Mitchell

[dutchking]

Well I wanted to keep it at the high resolution because when I resized it it lost a lot of detail. It was 2048x2048 and I put it down to 1024x1024, its only 512 kb.

 

[mamba]

Actually the "green" version is pretty "green"... it should probably be more of an olive-drab.

I agree, it is too green, is this more like it, or should it get even less green (or maybe darker) ?

Here is the skin, resized to 256x256 (i.e. 1/4th of what Dutchking used).

 

[mamba]

Well I wanted to keep it at the high resolution because when I resized it it lost a lot of detail. It was 2048x2048 and I put it down to 1024x1024, its only 512 kb.

Well, in game it is resized to a lot smaller size, so you loose that detail in game anyway. I also don't think I lost much detail when going to 256x256 (when seen in game that is, if you zoom close like you did in your pic, you will definitely notice it). I sharpened and resized it to gain back some detail (or at least the impression of it).

 

[dutchking]

Just even going to 512x512 screwed up the "tojo" on the bomb for me.

Well its up to you if you use it in a mod, you can resize it if you want. No one's stopping you.

 

[mamba]

True I just was surprised that you used such a large texture and thought that this was a mistake. Since this was not, by all means, keep it

 

[Wolfshanze]

I agree, it is too green, is this more like it, or should it get even less green (or maybe darker) ?

Here is the skin, resized to 256x256 (i.e. 1/4th of what Dutchking used).

Yeah, that's pretty good Mamba... I like that! Still not sure I really have a use for the B-25, but it looks good!

I'm sure it will find a home in any WWII mod!

 

[Gaius Octavius]

Thanks for the reskin, mamba. We need to start doing more "stock" stuff and less of little bombs with Tojo written on them (much as that makes me laugh!) Smaller size is important.

 

[dutchking]

Err..Gaius he didn't reskin it, he only resized it.

 

[mamba]

Ok, as there is some interest in the reskin, I also resized the gloss.dds accordingly (it too was 1024x1024) and put it in the zip too.

My previous post has been updated, but you can also get it here

I am fine with Dutchking putting small pics and stuff on planes if he enjoys it. If someone feels the need to do smaller skins, it's not that difficult to do

 

[mamba]

Err..Gaius he didn't reskin it, he only resized it.

well, I changed the green to olive

 

[Wolfshanze]

well, I changed the green to olive

I noticed the color change... and that was an improvement... the original skin seemed a tad too "Forest Green".

In any case, for me at least, it's all for naught... I really don't have a home for a B-25 in my rather modest mod...

Once again... still a great model, and I'm sure it will find plenty of homes.

 

[dutchking]

Thanks for it Mamba, but in the end its a choice of this:

vs.

Because I work on a high resolution, doesn't make much of a difference to me whether its 512 kb or 32, but its up to you.

 

[Wolfshanze]

Hey Dutchking... like I said previously, I don't have a home for this model, so I won't be using either skin personally (unbiased opinion on skins, since I won't be using either), but am curious on some technical aspects that I don't understand.

1) Some mentioning has been done of texture size... bigger vs smaller... how does this effect the game? Does bigger or smaller effect game performance depending on the horsepower of one's system, or no? Is there some other important factor for using or not using a smaller or bigger texture?

2) The detail on the nose art is obvious on very close zoom... the thing is... in a "typical" Civ4 game... how noticeable is the nose art at normal resolutions on a "game playing" zoom? I'm pretty sure you don't typically play the game zoomed to the point of seeing the eye color of the pilots. Just curious on anyone's take on the zoom factor on high detailed skins (which obviously DK did). Is there a penalty to pay for high detail, or does it not matter performance-wise? Curious on this too. If detail is "free" (performance wise) or only a slight bump, I'm all for the little touches that DK does... if they are a large hit to performance, then I think it's okay to skip or blur such detail... but I dunno the hit (or lack there-of), so I'm curious for answers from the knowledgeable folks... I'll admit, I don't know these aspects.



As a side note, I've not really had any major performance issues with Civ4, even with all the custom models I've added. For the curious, my system is NOT cutting-edge by any means... I custom built my system a few years ago when I knew I'd probably never have money again (retiring + starting a family), so I built a good system to last as long as possible... and well... computer-wise, it's been awhile, I know, but it still seems to be holding-up pretty good, even though I know I'm a few generations behind!

Wolf's "Middle-Aged Man" system:
3.0GHz Intel Pentium-4 (old-timer single-core)
1GB DDRAM system memory
NVidia GeForce 6800GT video card w/256MB memory (AGP no-doubt!)

 

[mamba]

Thanks for it Mamba, but in the end its a choice of this:

...snip...

Because I work on a high resolution, doesn't make much of a difference to me whether its 512 kb or 32, but its up to you.

I already said, go with whatever you prefer, I also said when you zoom in a lot you will definitely notice a difference. Here are some in game pics of the two skins (the top row is the closest you can zoom in in CIV, the one on the bottom right is probably still a bit closer than at what zoom level I usually play my games).

.

BTW what do you use to create .dds files (or what settings do you use) ? When I use DXTBmp to convert your .jpg to .dss, I end up with a .dds of 1.398.256 bytes, which is more than double your size.

 

[Wolfshanze]

German B-25s?

 

[mamba]

Hehe, I just quickly replaced standard bomber and fighter with these graphics so I could take a pic (I do not yet have them in my mod, but probably will add them) - and I usually play as Germany, so that is what I did when taking the pic as well.

 

[mamba]

Is there a penalty to pay for high detail, or does it not matter performance-wise? Curious on this too. If detail is "free" (performance wise) or only a slight bump, I'm all for the little touches that DK does... if they are a large hit to performance, then I think it's okay to skip or blur such detail... but I dunno the hit (or lack there-of), so I'm curious for answers from the knowledgeable folks... I'll admit, I don't know these aspects.

I do not know either, there obviously is a hit, at best the hit is that Dutchkings skin takes 1 MB of RAM while mine takes 125K. That would be the case if the skin is only loaded once and used for all bombers (which would be the smart thing to do). It will also eat up some graphics card RAM too (similar size to what I just said).

So, unless you have plenty of units which use high detail skins you shouldn't notice a hit.

Otoh there seems to be a rule of thumb to keep polygons < 2000 on units, I had loaded units with > 20000 polys and did not take a hit either. As long as these cases are rare, everything should be fine. When every unit uses 20k polys and 1 MB textures, you will notice that however.

And given the size of these things in game, you won't notice the detail of 20000 polys or 1 MB textures anyway, so neither is actually needed imo. But as I said, if Dutchking enjoys doing these details and prefers to keep that level of detail (which he clearly does), that is fine by me, you can always create a skin with less detail out of one with plenty of detail, the opposite is not true however

I wouldn't have brought the size up if I had known Dk wanted the skins at that size (first unit of his to use that large a skin afaik), I only reskinned it because I wanted a color closer to olive than green. Next time I will simply assume he did used a large skin intentionally

 

[Wolfshanze]

I do like the olive color better then the green color. Unfortunately I have no home for either color of a B-25.

 

[Gaius Octavius]

That is why we need to keep the size small - in a mod with 100 unique graphics, they add up quickly!

 

[dutchking]

=Wolfshanze;6556800]Hey Dutchking... like I said previously, I don't have a home for this model, so I won't be using either skin personally (unbiased opinion on skins, since I won't be using either), but am curious on some technical aspects that I don't understand.

1) Some mentioning has been done of texture size... bigger vs smaller... how does this effect the game? Does bigger or smaller effect game performance depending on the horsepower of one's system, or no? Is there some other important factor for using or not using a smaller or bigger texture?

It wouldn't break your game unless you're on something 10+ years old.

2) The detail on the nose art is obvious on very close zoom... the thing is... in a "typical" Civ4 game... how noticeable is the nose art at normal resolutions on a "game playing" zoom? I'm pretty sure you don't typically play the game zoomed to the point of seeing the eye color of the pilots. Just curious on anyone's take on the zoom factor on high detailed skins (which obviously DK did). Is there a penalty to pay for high detail, or does it not matter performance-wise? Curious on this too. If detail is "free" (performance wise) or only a slight bump, I'm all for the little touches that DK does... if they are a large hit to performance, then I think it's okay to skip or blur such detail... but I dunno the hit (or lack there-of), so I'm curious for answers from the knowledgeable folks... I'll admit, I don't know these aspects.

Well I don't care what it looks like in game, I care what it looks like close up. I want it to be detailed to the max, and it doesn't hurt performance, Leaderhead skins have to be some 5 MB of textures loading at the same time, a unit who has a 512 kb skin won't break your system.

I already said, go with whatever you prefer, I also said when you zoom in a lot you will definitely notice a difference. Here are some in game pics of the two skins (the top row is the closest you can zoom in in CIV, the one on the bottom right is probably still a bit closer than at what zoom level I usually play my games).

.

BTW what do you use to create .dds files (or what settings do you use) ? When I use DXTBmp to convert your .jpg to .dss, I end up with a .dds of 1.398.256 bytes, which is more than double your size.

The olive looks good. But I don't notice much a difference anyway.

I use Paint.Net, photoshop, gimp, and a few other texturing programs with a DDS plugin. I recommend Paint.Net the most, I use it for everything except a few details here and there. and its free.