AlpsStranger
Jump jump on the tiger!
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- Feb 8, 2009
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- 5,820
I love it. Two porno keywords in a Civ5 thread title 
backdoor domination--like it or not?
- Thread starter BubbaYeti
- Start date
Domination victories used to be the most difficult victory to attain for me. Now they have become so easy that winning by domination feels like cheating/an exploit. The AI does not protect its capital adequately and it is too easy to just snatch the AI's capital while the bulk of its army is waging wars elsewhere.
I have never played civ on multiplayer but if I had, I would defend my capitol with all the defending buildings available + a strong siege unit inside a half a dozen of units around.
Of course the neighbor cities would be also ready to output a bunch of units each, just in case of emergency.
Now consider the AI cheating on unit number and you would easily imagine that conquering a capitol city would be almost impossible then multiply that for each enemy capitol ( maybe 7 or 8 ) and you'll picture that a domination victory this way is impossible.
Yeah, I'm down with some backdoor domination, assuming I'm the one doing the dominating. What does that have to do with Civ5, though?
(Hehe, congrats on the victory. Yeah, it's cheesy, but with an AI that's so incompetent, you have to hobble yourself and create a whole mess of stupid 'house rules' to try and construct some artificial sense of challenge.)
(Hehe, congrats on the victory. Yeah, it's cheesy, but with an AI that's so incompetent, you have to hobble yourself and create a whole mess of stupid 'house rules' to try and construct some artificial sense of challenge.)
Jharii
King
There is a game option that disables this and requires you to kill all units to completely wipe out a civ for domination victory.
bryanw1995
Emperor
I dunno, I just won my first game on deity last night and I can say that it took everything I've learned to win. Most fun I've had in a long time playing any civ game. With the current patches plus the ones that were announced the other day they are steadily plugging loopholes, the rest is up to you to not exploit silly ones like this.
yes, but that's tedious as well. it should be a simple fix to require you to own every capitol for a domination victory. Maybe the issue was all the CS's are "capitols" as well??
I think it was probably added in to remove the end of game grind a lot of 4x games suffer from. You know you've won, but it's going to take you ages to actually get there.
The main reason this is such a problem is because ai civs don't view their capitals as being any more important than any other city - and they don't leave units back for that either (unless they figure out they're losing, which they often do, it's just too little, too late).
I have no problem with the idea in principle, it just isn't working as well as it should with the current ai deficiencies. It's an obvious complaint and one I'm sure they're aware of, so I would expect them to try and address this. Patience.
PS:If this hasn't already been brought up in the civ 5 issues thread I would suggest that as well, we've had word that it's a thread the devs have been reading.
The main reason this is such a problem is because ai civs don't view their capitals as being any more important than any other city - and they don't leave units back for that either (unless they figure out they're losing, which they often do, it's just too little, too late).
I have no problem with the idea in principle, it just isn't working as well as it should with the current ai deficiencies. It's an obvious complaint and one I'm sure they're aware of, so I would expect them to try and address this. Patience.
PS:If this hasn't already been brought up in the civ 5 issues thread I would suggest that as well, we've had word that it's a thread the devs have been reading.
Or even better, it could be called "Shafer domination".
Bob1475
Prince
When I read about the new domination I thought it was good. I mean what was the point of getting the pop/geography percentages. Once you reach a certain size it is inevitable. I thought getting all the capitals was going to be a challenge. However, this "last capital standing" is silly although I use it.
Simple fix, as noted by others is to require that winner HOLD all the original capitals. Don't know about the ten turns rule, that is really tough - but holding all the original capitals should do it.
Obviously CIV 5 cannot deal with a geographic requirement.
Simple fix, as noted by others is to require that winner HOLD all the original capitals. Don't know about the ten turns rule, that is really tough - but holding all the original capitals should do it.
Obviously CIV 5 cannot deal with a geographic requirement.
The scary thing about this conversation to me is, the mechanics they way they are set up now allow for a come-from-behind victory. Say you are playing on Deity and get stuck in a bad starting position, can't get too many cities built right away and you are being out-teched by the AI. At this point, diplomacy probably won't work since the conquering forces will probably laugh at your attempts to make nice and you can't survive an onslaught. With the changes you all suggest, in a situation like that, you may as well start over since there is no hope of any salvation.
Besides, If the AI defeats everyone else then there is only one capital to hold. But I do agree that the AI should be a little more careful about defending it's capitol at least. It shouldn't be THAT easy to come from behind and win by only capturing one city that just happens to be the last captiol left in the game.
Besides, If the AI defeats everyone else then there is only one capital to hold. But I do agree that the AI should be a little more careful about defending it's capitol at least. It shouldn't be THAT easy to come from behind and win by only capturing one city that just happens to be the last captiol left in the game.
Disgustipated
Deity
I miss conquest victory like in civ4. From way back in the civ2 days I used to love taking every city on the map. I want to paint the entire map the color of my empire. This is one reason I haven't bought civ5. Too much penalty for having a sprawling multi-continent empire.
I LOVE the idea of changing domination to "hold the last remaining true capital city for 10 turns. That would make Deity level domination wins (non-horseman related) extremely hard and fun ... your GDR may be invincible on a hill, but it will burn in a city just like any other unit 
It would also require actual defense tactics when sniping an enemy capital for the game win and to defend your own capital, something I would have had to do in my last Deity game if taking Rome's cap hadn't INSTANTLY ended the game with 15 Mech Inf and a GDR 1 turn from attacking mine
It would also require actual defense tactics when sniping an enemy capital for the game win and to defend your own capital, something I would have had to do in my last Deity game if taking Rome's cap hadn't INSTANTLY ended the game with 15 Mech Inf and a GDR 1 turn from attacking mine 
OTAKUjbski
TK421
Play at King or easier.
Get a massive tech lead.
Build tons of Mechanized Infantry while teching to Nuclear Fusion.
Save several thousand gold.
Optional: Mercantilism, Militarism.
Over the next three turns after popping Nuclear Fusion, rushbuy a GDR in every city up to your Uranium limit and gift them and your MechInf to various City-States near each player.
Just before the 3-turn wait on gifted units is up, pay the AI players to DoW on the City-States you've gifted the units to.
Sit back and watch the fireworks as the City-States win you a domination victory.
Get a massive tech lead.
Build tons of Mechanized Infantry while teching to Nuclear Fusion.
Save several thousand gold.
Optional: Mercantilism, Militarism.
Over the next three turns after popping Nuclear Fusion, rushbuy a GDR in every city up to your Uranium limit and gift them and your MechInf to various City-States near each player.
Just before the 3-turn wait on gifted units is up, pay the AI players to DoW on the City-States you've gifted the units to.
Sit back and watch the fireworks as the City-States win you a domination victory.
BubbaYeti
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2005
- Messages
- 130
Yeah, but its not just about prioritizing...its about the AI recognizing someone else is about to win. The AI seems to be trying to win by fulfilling a victory condition, but does nothing to prevent others from achieving whatever victory they are going for. To be truly challenging, the AI will have to operate at that level...and it isn't so far in civ v.
Frankly, I'm disappointed in the general state of AI in strategy games like civ or the total war series. It just never seems to get any BETTER.
That's true.
They could have imagined something better I agree. I can understand that conquering each city was extremely useless but in this way a powerful civ may conquer for example 8 capitol cities and a weak civ only one but the last one, this way the weak civ will win the game even if another civ is 100 time more powerful......
That's indeed a Shafer idea
dannythefool
King
- Joined
- Jul 15, 2009
- Messages
- 657
It's pretty bad.
It would be better if the AI could actually defend itself. As it is, it usually leaves no units at all in its capital when it's on the warpath. So you can send the same three or four units that you can send for an early game rush and win domination before the AI manages to take your capital in return. Which it doesn't try to do anyway, it takes your other cities first if you capital is harder to reach or better defended.
It would be even better if domination had an additional requirement, e.g. "be the last owner of an original capital and control at least 33% of the world's cities".
I think the reason they made domination work as it does is that it's really boring to conquer those last twenty cities or so after the game is virtually already decided. But they clearly overshot their target here.
It would be better if the AI could actually defend itself. As it is, it usually leaves no units at all in its capital when it's on the warpath. So you can send the same three or four units that you can send for an early game rush and win domination before the AI manages to take your capital in return. Which it doesn't try to do anyway, it takes your other cities first if you capital is harder to reach or better defended.
It would be even better if domination had an additional requirement, e.g. "be the last owner of an original capital and control at least 33% of the world's cities".
I think the reason they made domination work as it does is that it's really boring to conquer those last twenty cities or so after the game is virtually already decided. But they clearly overshot their target here.
dalowrider
Chieftain
- Joined
- Sep 30, 2010
- Messages
- 29
I agree, I miss x land and y population win, perhaps lower the old numbers some and add in the last to hold original capital
btw I seriously hope we can officially call this the backdoor domination strategy
btw I seriously hope we can officially call this the backdoor domination strategy
I have no problem with the way domination works but I think there should be the option to do things the old way (currently there is an option to make it so you have to destroy all of a cities units as well as cities before they are removed from the game but it doesn't change the domination victory).
I think there should be another victory condition added. Old Style Domination (or somesuch) where you have to take or raze all cities on the map (but not kill all units) before winning domination. It should be able to be turned on or off as normal.
The main problem isn't the domination victory, it's the dumb AI. Something that will hopefully be fixed in patches, but really should have been fixed out of the box.
I think there should be another victory condition added. Old Style Domination (or somesuch) where you have to take or raze all cities on the map (but not kill all units) before winning domination. It should be able to be turned on or off as normal.
The main problem isn't the domination victory, it's the dumb AI. Something that will hopefully be fixed in patches, but really should have been fixed out of the box.
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