bad great generals

[Qwack]

I think using a warlord on a mounted unit is more rewarding than on a melee. With the +30% withdraw promotion warlords get, combine this with withdraw I and II means a cavalry can get up to +90% withdraw rate, and gunships will get + 85% withdraw.

 

[Defense Advisor]

I think that the great generals are underpowered, as warlords, they could give more experience and better abilities. That would make warlord leaded units significantly stronger than other units, which would be more realistic. Because strategy means much in any type of warfare.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

I think using a warlord on a mounted unit is more rewarding than on a melee. With the +30% withdraw promotion warlords get, combine this with withdraw I and II means a cavalry can get up to +90% withdraw rate, and gunships will get + 85% withdraw.

The problem with that is that takes 3 promotions... ones that are Only useful on the offense

Instead you could have taken Combat 1-3 and probably improved your odds even more. (and it would work on offense and Defense)

 

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[Draconian]

The problem with that is that takes 3 promotions... ones that are Only useful on the offense

Instead you could have taken Combat 1-3 and probably improved your odds even more. (and it would work on offense and Defense)

Combat 1-3 may be better for your odds to win, but flanking/tactics increase your odds to survive on the offence much more.
A Cavalry with Flanking I+II and Tactics attacking at 50% has only a 5% chance to die. I doubt that simply adding Combat 1-3 would have such a great effect.

 

[lobster]

It's more like the safe route or the risky route.

More risk more gain I guess.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Combat 1-3 may be better for your odds to win, but flanking/tactics increase your odds to survive on the offence much more.
A Cavalry with Flanking I+II and Tactics attacking at 50% has only a 5% chance to die. I doubt that simply adding Combat 1-3 would have such a great effect.

True, but that is
1. specifically a Cavalry (it would be 10% for a HA, 15% for a Chariot, and 20% for anything else... ot odds I'd want to give a unit)
2. When are you going to be attacking at 50% odds?
3. That means you can Only Attack, if your WL ever gets selected to defend they get no bonus.

 

[casey1966]

I'll tell you guys what,I'll personally flip everyone that's posted on this thread 50 times each. If my calculations are correct you'll all land on your "HEAD" 99.9999%......

How's that for a return post? Forgot all about the Warlords expansion pack that was coming out,been quite busy.I got on here to read some posts about it,will probably purchase it today at Wally World....see ya!

 

[Draconian]

50% was only an example. Attack at 90% and you only have 1-4% (depending on the unit) to die. Attack constantly at ~90% without high withdraw and your GG won't live long. I don't like it if I can only use my GG at 98% without putting his life to great risk.
And the ability to be able to attack at "bad" odds is nice, if you win those fights you get more XP.
True, it doesn't help on the defence, but I don't want my GGs to defend. On the offence you can control the odds, if you are defending you can't. Your GG might be selected as defender when he got only 70% odds while another unit in the stack has 65%. I wouldn't want my GG to fight that battle. So by adding some units which have more combat promotions than my GG to the stack (which isn't that hard as I used 2-3 promotions on withdraw and probably another one on Leadership) I make sure that he doesn't ever defend.

 

[El Koeno]

I agree with Draconian here. The high retreat odds are nice, and the fact their defensive power is low might ensure they don't get picked for defensive duties, increasing the survivability of you Great Generals even further.

 

[csarmi]

The only problem here is that it is psychologically hard to lose a very high xp unit... or a warlod, for that issue.

What is this unit? It's just stronger than the others, but doesn't give you any other benefits - unless you need to build the heroic epic (or the west point).

So why afraid losing it?

I think there are 3 ways to use a general well (apart from putting it to specialist/building):

1) Give him some promotions that work when you aren't fighting (commando for fast pillaging, hight medics for moving hospital, etc)

2) Spread the XP between your units... you get 5 one level higher cavalries and that can make the difference in your next war

3) Create a super unit to attack tough targets (to kill 1st/2nd units in city - which are not injured yet) without fear. If you lose, well be it. But more often than not, you'll win. Saving 5 other units at that 1st city of the AI can make a difference.

 

[Zoolooman]

From my experience with great generals I have consistently found that just about all of the great general units die in combat so quickly. I remember one time one of my weak fodder units attacked on a 27% victory chance and won, next my warlord unit attacked with a 96% chance of victory and LOST. This happens to me all the time. Does anyone else have this problem?

It's happening enough to be suspicious. I generally only fight with a general with a 95% or better chance of victory. That's a 1 in 20 (or worse chance) of defeat. In my next game I'll try to keep a tally, and I'll see if I really only lose one in twenty battles, or if I lose more often.

In any case, the loss of a Warlord is basically a monstrous waste, which relegates them to a fun but ultimately less-than-optimal role. I generally use only one warlord, which I give medic III abilities and NOTHING ELSE. This assures me that he'll always be the last defender in the stack, and hence will almost never get killed.

I never use a warlord for its offensive promotions. I'll get more out of him if I settle him as a great instructor or build a military academy.

 

[DrewBledsoe]

The only problem here is that it is psychologically hard to lose a very high xp unit... or a warlod, for that issue.

What is this unit? It's just stronger than the others, but doesn't give you any other benefits - unless you need to build the heroic epic (or the west point).

So why afraid losing it?

I think there are 3 ways to use a general well (apart from putting it to specialist/building):

1) Give him some promotions that work when you aren't fighting (commando for fast pillaging, hight medics for moving hospital, etc)

2) Spread the XP between your units... you get 5 one level higher cavalries and that can make the difference in your next war

3) Create a super unit to attack tough targets (to kill 1st/2nd units in city - which are not injured yet) without fear. If you lose, well be it. But more often than not, you'll win. Saving 5 other units at that 1st city of the AI can make a difference.

Just thought that I'd point out, once you have your lvl 6 superunit, it doesn't matter if it dies that same turn, you can still build west point later on

 

[Enkidu_Warrior]

one way I can see making great generals more useful is to make it so that any units that benefit from the free 20 xp of the GG get the upgrade benefit.

that is, if you arrange it so your GG gives 5xp to each of 4 units, all 4 of those units gain the benefit of the GG unit in terms of upgrades.

this would give you another way of using GG's, and a way that doesn't result in the big downside of losing them in that freak battle with 95% victory, 4.5% retreat.

EW