[Balance Issue?] Barbarians

[samboy29]

Hey,

I've only done a few rounds of FfH now, in the first 3 games the barbarians were non-obtrusive, but in the last game I found that the barbarians were overpowered.

For one, the barbarian units were drastically stronger (can't remember what they were called exactly but they were "named" barbarians on horses going around killing all my echelons, crossbow men, slaves etc. I went from having well over 100 military units to less than 10 as they went around killing all my units, even with promotions in city defense (amongst others), pallisades, walls, fortification bonuses etc I wasn't able to kill even one of these units that were running rampant around my land (they didn't seem to be attacking anyone else but I'm not certain).

At first they (the uber barbarians) were only going around killing all my slaves, then they went around bringing my cities down to just a few military units, then they started capturing them.

Not sure what caused these barbarians to spawn, before then it was only the "regular" ones, like the lizard guys, earth elementals and dim reaper looking guys.

They AC count was at 70, and all my terrain was hell terrain; and I had set barbarians to not aggressive on startup - if it is of any use in diagnosing what caused this OP barbarians to spawn.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

This is what happens when you let the AC get too high, you are bringing (or not fighting against it) the end of the world and these barbarians represent the fear of the gods (they are the four horsemen of the apocalypse). Another words this is how it is supposed to happen. Just wait for the Avatar of .....

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Oh an welcome to FFH =)

 

[samboy29]

Cheers, ahaha, makes sense now.

I was at war with two teams (and [was] winning) before they showed up on me lol. So far that is the furthest progress wise in this game lol. Maybe next time I should be good guys so I don't have to worry about godly barbarians killing me Love FfH 100x better than the defualt Civ IV

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

Yea sounds like you had an unlucky spell of the spawning in your lands. It is supposed to be random, but it seems to hit me hard as well. *Now* I expect it too, so I have a horde of champions waiting for them. You can disable hell terrain in the game options screen, but whats the fun it that . There are few civs that can benefit from the AC rising. Even Evil civs suffer. The best civs to survive in Hell terrain are he Sheaim and the Infernals, so all the other civs I would avoid a high AC and Hell terrain. The Sheaim need a bit of strategy to take advantage though. If you haven't already try reading up on them a bit here for some insight: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=292175

Edit: find out what raises the AC to avoid it. From the top of my head I can think of a few: Razing cities, letting the AV religion spread, pulling Kael's finger ...

 

[samboy29]

Edit: find out what raises the AC to avoid it. From the top of my head I can think of a few: Razing cities, letting the AV religion spread, pulling Kael's finger ...

rofl, yea, I was that evil Calabin (I think that is what it is called) with Ashen Viel religion and most of the world ended up having that religion by the end of the game.. I figure that wouldn't have helped the AC levels.

and yea, hell terrain is too fun to turn off, I quite enjoyed watching my land get engulfed in flames

as a side question, what is the point of death nodes other than to make people hate you? Only thing I have seen that it does is it makes people like you -1%.

 

[rusty217]

as a side question, what is the point of death nodes other than to make people hate you? Only thing I have seen that it does is it makes people like you -1%.

It lets your adepts etc. learn spells from the death sphere. And if you have multiple death nodes your adepts can start with some of the death sphere spells already.

And it is also required to build the tower of necromancy which, along with the other magic towers, contributes to one of the victory conditions...

 

[Sarisin]

Hey samboy in preparing for the arrival of the Four Horsemen next time, forget about Death mana and make sure you have Spirit mana. You need to have an Adept/Mage use the Spirit I spell called Courage on all your troops (sadly, there are still some units that cannot receive this). Unless you have Undead or Demons and they will be good to go.

If your guys do not have Courage when the Horsemen appear, no matter how powerful they are, they will shrink in Fear from Combat. The only way to make sure you can whittle the Horsemen down and then kill them is to use troops with Courage.

I think folks that have played this game/mod a while look at their appearance as more of just an annoyance than anything else as you can prepare for their arrival when the counter gets up into the 50s and after Blight has passed.

Of course, that is now, and the word on the street is that in the next version, .34, we might have to come up with some new strategies in dealing with these bad guys.

 

[samboy29]

Cheers Sarisin and Rusty,

Yea I'm still getting used to all the promotions and buffs and that, I've learnt that I should have more adepts / mages or w/e than what I have been using (1) lol

I was looking through the civipedia I think it is called and didn't see anything that was even remotely as strong as those horseman so it definitely seems buffs and terrain bonuses and such are the only way you can take those guys down.

 

[orangelex44]

First of all, welcome to FFH, samboy. If you haven't yet, download the manual in the sticky thread... it'll make the life easier for you, trust me.

As for killing the Horsemen, the way is just to throw megastacks of cheap units to weaken them, then finish with a Hero or any other highly upgraded unit. If you haven't noticed, nearly all of the promotions in FFH are doubled in effectiveness - so that a Combat 5 unit is doubled in strength. That'll make it a bit easier for you.

Now, if you're the Calabim, you have access to Vampires. An easy-to-use strategy for you would be to build a few, then use their spells to summon Skeletons (one per unit with Death I). Then use can the Skellies as your "throwaway" units because they're free! Plus, that Fear mechanic Sarisin was talking about can be ignored, since Skeletons aren't alive to be Feared. Even better, your Vampires can Feast on your citizens to gain experience, so once your Skeletons weaken the Horsemen you can then finish with a strong, highly-upgraded unit - although Vampires are alive, and so you may want to consider getting Spirit/Courage for them.

So this kind of answers your Death Mana question, too... it gives you access to Skeletons, among other things. Again, Xienwolf's Manual can tell you the exact spells it lets you cast, along with the other Manas.

 

[samboy29]

Thanks for that orange, I'll have to try that. I had about 50 vampires lol all with skeletons but I didn't bother trying to attack the horseman with them - didn't think they would even be able to damage the horseman but hey, I'll have to try it All I was doing with them was raiding enemy towns with them before attacking with stronger units. Yep, I had a look at the manual briefly after posting this thread, certainly does help.

Thanks for that

 

[heisenberg]

welcome to FfH~

about death nodes: not everyone hates you for using them You get attitude bonuses from some evil civs for using those. Death is one of my preferred spheres too =P All 3 tiers have summons, and death III allows for lichdom which frees up your archmage slots. Having multiple death nodes are good too since spectres and wraiths have death affinity (+1 str per source), and cause your adepts to start with death I.

 

[samboy29]

welcome to FfH~

about death nodes: not everyone hates you for using them You get attitude bonuses from some evil civs for using those. Death is one of my preferred spheres too =P All 3 tiers have summons, and death III allows for lichdom which frees up your archmage slots. Having multiple death nodes are good too since spectres and wraiths have death affinity (+1 str per source), and cause your adepts to start with death I.

Cheers, that is pretty neat. Yea I loved being able to summon stuff though at that point I didn't even realise that choosing a death node was the reason I could summon them in the first place Everyone likes things that have stackability

 

[orangelex44]

If you throw 50 of anything at a unit, it'll die. Granted, you'll have some epic stats at the end of the game, but to kill a str. 30 Hero, it's totally worth it.

 

[samboy29]

If you throw 50 of anything at a unit, it'll die.

Wow that's nice, wish I new that earlier

Granted, you'll have some epic stats at the end of the game

Think I already would have considering the horseman had killed at least a hundred of my slaves

but to kill a str. 30 Hero, it's totally worth it.

 

[Sarisin]

although Vampires are alive, and so you may want to consider getting Spirit/Courage for them.

Vampires are NOT alive. I was just watching that new HBO series called True Blood and there was a Vampire on it that clearly said he was DEAD!

Really, I wonder why they are treated as living in FFH2. It would make more sense if they were non-living and could summon non-living units (Skeletons).

I don't want to confuse samboy, though, as you gave excellent advice to him.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Vampires most certainly are alive. They represent the Body sphere (signifying anger, hatred, selfishness, lusts, and sensual pleasures) which is not appropriate for a non-living creature.

In FfH, Vampirism comes from dark rituals that allow someone to extend his/her own physical life indefinitely by draining the life and soul from his/her victims. Blood isn't all that important to the process, but due to a curse they do desire it. This curse, which also causes vampires to be vulnerable to direct sunlight (it doesn't kill them, but weakens them, feels very unpleasant, and causes serious sunburn), was placed on them by Lugus as punishment for Alexis' murder of Lanthis, a devout acolyte of the sun god.

 

[orangelex44]

As I see it, if your soul hasn't been to either one of the hells or heavens, you're considered alive (hence, Shades and Vamps are living). The reverse isn't true, however - just because you've been to hell or heaven doesn't mean you're now dead. Notable examples: the "fallen" angels Basium and Cassiel.

 

[Darksaber1]

Yhea, in FfH vampires are less like the clasic "vampire', and more like a Strix (Thought of course not a blood sucking owl in the sense that they never died, becoming a blood-sucker through a metamorposis. Of course I might be reading to much into it, and Kael simple decided to have living vampires :shrug:

 

[Sarisin]

I think you can find many instances where vampires are considered dead as well as many where they are considered alive.

Personally, I tend to go with the Leslie Nielsen movie: "Dracula - Dead and Loving It."

You could argue it either way for many moons, but for the purposes of this mod they truly are alive.