Balance patch discussion and goals

[Gazebo]

I was wondering, what was the rationale behind the removal of science from population ?

Not that I dislike this change ; for me, it's just part of an ensemble that I like more than Vanilla. But it was quite a huge move and I wasn't playing the mod back then, so I'd like to know what motivated it.

Thanks

It was done to control the overwhelming value of food. Food was essentially science, thus de linking them makes it less of a monoculture for food.

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Alls I know is, the Tradition modifier in base game went after the exponent of that plot cost, which completely upended the math from every logical direction. The modifier went down by "30%", i.e. 0.3, to become 0.8, which of course means the exponent had a cumulative effect of flattening the plot cost function.

All the other modifiers were normal modifiers, which had their own gotcha of a possible 0% cost. The typical thing from... any game I can think of, is that negative modifiers multiply with each other, but that would be a sign check and more dll tinkering.

 

[Navanod]

Alls I know is, the Tradition modifier in base game went after the exponent of that plot cost, which completely upended the math from every logical direction. The modifier went down by "30%", i.e. 0.3, to become 0.8, which of course means the exponent had a cumulative effect of flattening the plot cost function.

All the other modifiers were normal modifiers, which had their own gotcha of a possible 0% cost. The typical thing from... any game I can think of, is that negative modifiers multiply with each other, but that would be a sign check and more dll tinkering.

That was my initial assumption as well, that negative modifiers multiply with each other, which explains why I had such erratic results (with and without tradition) and couldn't get the math figured out.

Yes, instead of adding a small exponential cost of 1.1, it is actually heavily reducing the cost increase by a negative factor. However, this makes it entirely in my favor and well worth the 2 social policy points.

PS: I read both Erfworld and OOTS

 

[briantjack]

When I unlock a policy branch (e.g., Tradition, Progress, etc.), I unlock a building (e.g., Sauna, Town Council, etc.). Could you please include in your next patch revision a reminder within the tooltip text as to what building is unlocked with each policy branch?

 

[vyyt]

What you are describing (policies unlocking buildings) is not a VP mechanics. You must be playing with some other mods, right?

 

[briantjack]

What you are describing (policies unlocking buildings) is not a VP mechanics. You must be playing with some other mods, right?

While I am playing with mods other than Vox Populi, the "policies unlocking buildings" is a feature within the base Community Patch. Am I in the wrong forum?

 

[thunderbird_14]

I think you're confused with this modmod by Enginseer and the base patch.

 

[vyyt]

I think you're confused with this modmod by Enginseer and the base patch.

Yeah, this must be it - I am pretty sure there are no buildings tied to social policies unlocks neither in CP or CBO.

 

[briantjack]

Yeah, this must be it - I am pretty sure there are no buildings tied to social policies unlocks neither in CP or CBO.

My bad! Well, do I still have to have the "Mod Compatibility" loaded when playing a game with CP & CBP? And is there a separate thread I should post to about making the suggestion above?

 

[briantjack]

Further comments/suggestions:
- I played a game recently whereby I couldn't build the National Monument until I constructed a Monument in each of my cities. I thought I only required a Monument in the city I wanted to build the N.M. in.
- Please swap the unit icons between the Paratrooper and the Special Forces; I think the Paratrooper should have the parachute and the S.F. have the M4 rifle (what used to be used for the Marines).

 

[vyyt]

I thought I only required a Monument in the city I wanted to build the N.M. in.

Yes, you are to have a monument in the city you to build the NW at AND reach the population threshold - you can see all this when you mouse over the NW in the production selection in the city screen.

 

[gendalf]

When I've reached modern era with USA I was given a bunch of free units around my capital, why is that? I have only 1 militaristic city-state ally, I have tradition, progress, rationalism finished. Where did the units come from?

 

[vyyt]

Could be from a vassal state? They give you free units when you enter a new era. Do you have any vassals?

 

[gendalf]

vyyt, I've had a 1-city vassal which didn't have any units of their own. Would seem strange to get like 5 units from them.
..
I usually disable vassals, I've abandoned that game because my ally that I was defending, and had a ton of opinion bonuses with, decided to attack my vassal and inadvertently attack me, my guess the AI doesn't take into consideration their relation with suzerain...

 

[Gazebo]

vyyt, I've had a 1-city vassal which didn't have any units of their own. Would seem strange to get like 5 units from them.
..
I usually disable vassals, I've abandoned that game because my ally that I was defending, and had a ton of opinion bonuses with, decided to attack my vassal and inadvertently attack me, my guess the AI doesn't take into consideration their relation with suzerain...

Impossible. You cannot declare war on a vassal. No one can. And yes the AI considers allies and vassals before DOW.

In any case you gain free units every era from your vassal. See the vassal overview.

 

[gendalf]

- Portugese Nau "Sell exotic goods" ability can be used not only on city-states but also near any A.I. borders is this intentional?

- Are religious beliefs no longer blocked? I've seen AI religion having the same (specialists +2 yield) belief as in my religion.

- The War Elephant is a melee unit, but it doesn't get the The Zulu's special promotion. I guess mounted aren't considered "melee"?

- Can you add an easy way to see which city states don't have embassies yet? Maybe as an icon on the list of city states on the right and/or an icon within the city-state interface.

- Allied AI asks if I still want to declare the allied war together (after 10 turns of waiting), doesn't matter if I agree or not, the allied AI drops the nuke on the enemy city that borders me, automatically declaring on me too, kinda silly.

 

[RichardB]

From several recent games I found that mining monopolies, the +2 science ones in particular, are too strong (playing immortal, epic gamepace). Especially in the hands of an AI that has next to instant access to it, it tends to make the AI run away in science way too quickly to do much about it.
I'd suggest changing along sth like: +2science --> +1science,+1gold or +1science +2 global happiness;; +2 culture --> +1culture,+1gold or incl. happiness.

Cheers,
R.

 

[mireigi]

Something feels off, even playing on Prince.

Just a year ago I was able to beat Immortal, also using this patch, though an earlier version, on a One City Challenge, playing as Babylon, and getting a decent techlead early on.

This time around, still playing as Babylon, I struggle to keep up in tech, but manage to win an early war after being declared upon, taking all of their (France) cities but one. 150 turns later, out of the blue, 4 of the 7 AIs decide to dogpile upon me, despite now only being behind two of them in tech, all of them friendly towards me, and me sitting at a comfortable 18 / 24 military count, so there's room to panic buy units with my ~2000 gold bank.

On top of all that, two turns after the DoW, the one I had let keep one city, and whom still had only the one city at the time, decides to do a DoW as well, somehow, on just one city, bringing in 14 units all on a similar tech as my own. And as the cherry on the top, the happiness just tanks from 18 to negative 4 during the first five rounds of war, all of it due to war weariness.

Game was going great up until then. Then completely lost in less than 20 turns after a dogpile DoW out of the blue.

I get that the game is supposed to be more difficult, but I have never seen such dogpiling before. At least not until after ideologies started taking effect.

Something feels way overtuned.