Balancing Science in Civ V in Regards to Large Empires

[DonMarty]

Empires with good economies should have the option of funneling that into research rather then buidling up a big army; I think it created a nice dichotomy of options.

I add a lots of specialist so you can focus !

 

[Paeanblack]

Think about it. Throughout history, scientific progress has pretty much ignored national borders. Of course, isolationist countries will always fall behind in technology but once the borders are opened, they catch up extremely quickly. 19th century Japan is a good example.

Japan is actually an anomaly. The technological catchup game for a larger population is normally a much longer, much more painful process. Look at China, Indian subcontinent, Sub-Saharan Africa. Small, open, trade-centric nations fare much better technologically. Denmark/Netherlands/Asian Tigers/etc.

One big advantage Japan had was an old and stable legal system. Even if many of the laws were considered backwards to foreigners in the 19th century, the system was predictable, and investors like predictable.

 

[jorissimo]

What about completely removing science per population, and instead giving the palace a fixed number of beakers per turn? Libraries would give 1 beaker for 1 pop, instead of 1 per 2, and universities, public schools etc. would give +100% science. That way you'll have to build libraries before expanding, or else you would fall behind in tech rapidly. Literacy bonus or making techs more expensive to research when you have more cities are also very good ideas. Take, for example, Russia. At the end of the 19th century, it was far behind in comparison to Europe, because of low literacy caused by their massive empire.
If you adjust the tech costs a little, combine these ideas and add in tech diffusion, you have a nice system that doesn't favor ICS anymore.

 

[Camikaze]

I have to say, I agree to a very large extent with the ideas in the OP. The Anarchy Bucket idea would fit in nicely with the proposed happiness penalty, and the ideas outlined in this thread would be good at advantaging bigger cities and combating ICS as it pertains to science.

 

[greggbert]

What are you smoking?
Oh wait, it's not you it's the Super Mario devs eh...Mushrooms everywhere.

In Mario Kart there is a "rubberband effect" where the person most behind is given a speed bonus and the person most ahead is slowed down a little.

 

[Camikaze]

That would perhaps be an interesting approach, but it would most likely create an incentive to win through means other than high scientific output. You want to incentivise being at the forefront of technological development.

 

[Frosty_AUT]

That would perhaps be an interesting approach, but it would most likely create an incentive to win through means other than high scientific output. You want to incentivise being at the forefront of technological development.

Of course it shouldn't be a viable strategy to fall behind in tech, but don't you think that technology is just too important in this game? Military power, economy, culture ... Science has an amplifying effect on everything. This also means that once you are ahead in tech, it's more than likely that the others will never catch up. The gap will only become larger with every turn, unless some other empire goes on a conquering spree among it's less-developed neighbors and starts out-researching you through sheer number of citizens.

 

[zimmah]

you know why in civ conquering is easy and in real world conquering is quite hard?

it's because in gaem people don't really respond when another nation gets their ass kicked by a warmongerer, but n real life when some nation beats on another nation, usually the rest of the world will try to stop the war.


if you want culture, diplomacy, science, etc. to work (as some people call it: sim-city like building, which is also fun, don't get me wrong, i like peaceful playing too) you should respond a little more like 'real world'. i.e. whenever someone declares war on someone else, just for the sake of razing/puppeting the nation mass-declare war on the aggresor!

if enough people do this, it will be possible to play it 'peacefuly'.

it will make games much more interesting then only rushing down player for player.

rushing is fun, yes, but building a civilization is also fun. tho, on your own you will never be able to build a civilization if someone is going to rush you down whenever you are trying to build up your empire peacefully (can't blame them) and noone protects you, because they are 'peacefully' minding their own bussiness and not helping their other peacefully friends.

 

[Camikaze]

Of course it shouldn't be a viable strategy to fall behind in tech, but don't you think that technology is just too important in this game? Military power, economy, culture ... Science has an amplifying effect on everything. This also means that once you are ahead in tech, it's more than likely that the others will never catch up. The gap will only become larger with every turn, unless some other empire goes on a conquering spree among it's less-developed neighbors and starts out-researching you through sheer number of citizens.

I would say that science being a very important thing is quite an accurate reflection of reality. Technology should be quite key to success in the game. However, I understand that you don't want to make scientific dominance unbalanced to the point of it being self-perpetuating on its own accord. You want scientific dominance to be dependent on the direct factors that produce it, rather than on previous scientific dominance itself.

 

[NickyVladimir]

Once you have used up all of your “happiness reserves” your science levels should plummet with a -70% penalty.

I like this. Alternatively, you could reduce the base science rate by a huge amount (it's too fast anyway IMO) and add a huge science bonus during Golden Ages. An empire that's always unhappy will never have a Golden Age, so it will be more technologically stagnant.