Balseraph suggestions

[feydras]

I believe the Balseraph are planned to get reworking with Shadow but i have a couple suggestions to throw out...

1 - Gypsy Wagon. This unit is in need of change if simply for the reason that no thinking player is going to tolerate their presence in their empire for long. This makes them ineffective vs. human players and the civ a bad choice in multiplayer. The GW are easy to kill with a quick war on the Balseraph wasting a lot of the Bal's production investment.
Suggestion: let the Gypsy Wagon grant a +1 happiness to the city it sits in. If this is too good then have it steal an extra 1 gold to balance. The idea is to give some reason for the other civ to at least tolerate the GW presence.

2 - How about a building that lets the Balseraph join human slaves with captured animals to create freakish beastmen? It would have to come early or possibly be an added function of Freakshow. Too much overlap with the late game Graft spell?

- feydras

 

[Demus]

instead of having the extra gold to balance, why not have GW's capture a few people once a while, sending them back to the capital as slaves? Whether or not the city loses population because of this is debatable ofcourse, but i recon it shouldn't, since they'd only be a few people on a million+ citizens.

 

[PapaMonkey]

Really, you don't even need war. (I have not tried it, but) you could just use Mercs, animals, or any HN unit to get rid of a unit that you don't want around.

 

[xienwolf]

Aye, the main historical arguement against the gypsy was a fear that the youth would be converted to their ways, and leave the villiage. Since most all of the jobs/land passed down father to son, this would cripple the village as a whole, so they would chase out the gypsy, but only after benefiting from any trade that the wagons happened to bring.

So having the GW with a chance to pop a slave in your capital every turn that they are in another Civ's city would be a great mechanic. And it probably ought to leave their population alone since that would require yet another balancing feature, and this idea is meant to balance the added happiness, which is meant to balance the "otherwise useless to the player you are leeching" aspect.

 

[Elm]

If the gypsy wagon was changed to pop a slave in your capital, I think it would make sense to have the wagon "escape" to the capital when it does this (ie. brings the slaves back with them).

this would be annoying, since your 1 move wagon would have to travel all the way back, but could balance out getting the slaves.

--

Or... you could change it so that when a gypsy wagon is destroyed, a couple of slaves "escape" (appear) in your capital, giving you a portion of the production back. And have the slaves be random nationality.

 

[Sureshot]

does the gypsy wagon mechanic work currently?

a simple way to do them might be to make them a guild instead, since the way theyre supposed to work seems similar (gypsy wagons would become missionary type units instead)

 

[KillerClowns]

a simple way to do them might be to make them a guild instead, since the way theyre supposed to work seems similar (gypsy wagons would become missionary type units instead)

Sounds like a great idea! A Balseraph exclusive guild, requiring a great bard, that really wreaks havoc on foreigners. It should provide happiness to all, but sap the culture of foreign entities. Can a guild be programmed to have different effects for its owner then others?

 

[smurven]

I'm pretty sure gypsies would spread culture. People may hate them but you cant say a gypsy isn't cultured

 

[Caradoc]

I think Loki should be able to enter Barbarian cities.

 

[KillerClowns]

I'm pretty sure gypsies would spread culture. People may hate them but you cant say a gypsy isn't cultured

They have culture, of course, but in the world of Erebus, it's Balseraph culture. That's the purpose of Gypsy Caravans. They can be found in the holy halls of the Bannor, in the dark citadels of the Calabim, in the boisterous ports of the Lanun... but in the end, they answer only to the Jack of Tears (or his daughter). I can hardly see gypsies, in caravan or guild form, helping the humorless culture of the Bannor spread.

 

[Blakmane]

2 - How about a building that lets the Balseraph join human slaves with captured animals to create freakish beastmen? It would have to come early or possibly be an added function of Freakshow. Too much overlap with the late game Graft spell?

This. Is such. A good. Idea.

Not only does it synergise with the balseraph slave abilities, it ALSO synergises with their superior recon line =D

*edit*

also the guilds is a really good idea too. It means you can spread culture/gold stealing without having to worry as much about HN/getting kicked out from war. The guild could even have a small chance of causing unrest or perhaps sabotaging units when the civ is at war with the balseraphs- this would fit well in with the 'stay at peace but screw you over' kind of attitude of the balseraphs.

 

[Bad Player]

I believe the Balseraph are planned to get reworking with Shadow but i have a couple suggestions to throw out...

1 - Gypsy Wagon. This unit is in need of change if simply for the reason that no thinking player is going to tolerate their presence in their empire for long. This makes them ineffective vs. human players and the civ a bad choice in multiplayer. The GW are easy to kill with a quick war on the Balseraph wasting a lot of the Bal's production investment.
Suggestion: let the Gypsy Wagon grant a +1 happiness to the city it sits in. If this is too good then have it steal an extra 1 gold to balance. The idea is to give some reason for the other civ to at least tolerate the GW presence.

I agree with this gypsy wagon problem but I don't think the happiness thing would work (since human players still know you are spying/stealing from them). Also I don't think gypsy wagons in Europe create much happiness in their cities! Perhaps they should be invisible units?

 

[.SinClaire.]

I thought GW's could build Gypsy Camps in enemy cities, after that they can just leave...guess that was removed,

 

[xienwolf]

The camp should be removed as soon as a turn starts without a wagon in that town (same as any spell designed buildings)

 

[Rex rgis of Ter]

it ALSO synergises with their superior recon line =D

I have found, since the introduction of puppeteers, and Keelyn's awesome summoning trait, the BAlseraphs have become much more mgical. Also, the introduction of freaks has distracted from recon. I honestly don't want the Balseraphs to become another recon civ. We've already got the Ljosalfar, Svatalfar, and I assume from hints all over the forum, the Sidar. Really, I would like the Balseraphs pointing towards magic and melee. ENough of this meaningless rant. BTW, I like the Caravan suggestion, and it should have a late game version which sucks out more culture, to make the culture wars actually effect late game.

 

[Sureshot]

given that freaks are melee units that can upgrade to hunters, i think they make their recon line even stronger (the ability to get shock2, cover2, formation2, and march ona recon unit).