It's not just america, someone on here, in this thread, mentioned that other countries, including some former allied nations, and I'm sure there are nazis in your country, they just aren't publicly organized, just because they don't have a political party doesn't mean they aren't there.
Ban the Nazis, or ur Un-Ban the commies.
- Thread starter Pellaken
- Start date
amadeus
Bishop of Bio-Dome
It's not like you're going to find the Nazi party of Monaco or anything.
Of course, I only did my search in English. Give it a shot in German or Spanish and see what you get.
Of course, I only did my search in English. Give it a shot in German or Spanish and see what you get.
Greadius
:yeah:
Only if they act on it, advocating isn't enough...
Did you actually read anything that the American Nazi Party promotes? They have the same basic premise as the KKK... its nothing new; they just use the name to get attention.
santo67
Huitzilopochtli
That is, of course, your opinion.
I, as an American living under the Constitution, including the First Amendment, must respect your opinion as your own.
I happen to have a different opinion. It goes a little something like this: Those very thoughts are dangerous. If you give up Freedom of Speech so a vast minority can't voice their opinions that hardly anyone will listen to anyway, it will lead to worse things.
Ben Franklin once said something to the effect of A society willing to give up a few civil liberties for a little justice will receive nothing and deserve neither.
And French philosopher Voltaire once said, I may disagree with what you have to say, but I shall defend, to the death, your right to say it.
scorch
Legalize Pot
You've got problems. You're too senstitiave. I hate nazism, but I believe the best way for prevention is discussion.
Kilgore's right, if you don't like the thread, butt out and leave it alone.
scorch
Legalize Pot
I have to say, I have more respect for that site than other racist/facist sites i have seen.
That one blatently says that they don't like blacks and jews. The other sites try to give reasons for being ignorant.
That one blatently says that they don't like blacks and jews. The other sites try to give reasons for being ignorant.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
I think those who say Freedom of Speech should be completely unrestricted have good ideals (in my opinion, as I share them) but they shouldn't overlook the problem that in reality that is not so easy to maintain.
Here in Germany everything more or less closely connected to National Socialism is prohibited. That includes the swastika, the 'Hitlergruß' (that gesture with the arm to 'hail' the Führer) and various other symbols.
Furthermore there is a crime called 'Volksverhetzung' (roughly instigation or agitation) which mean you can be punished for saying certain things, which includes antisemitism and other forms of racism.
Now as someone who thinks that free speech should be unrestricted one could simply reject that methods. But I think that is too easy. Though I would, if I had to decide, abolish these laws, I can't deny the sense they have. The basic questions are: Should a free Democracy give people the right to agitate against it, with the potential danger of an overthrow of it? Should people have the right to incite hatred towards certain ethnic groups?
I think one should think about the consequences his choice may have very well, no matter what choice that is.
Here in Germany everything more or less closely connected to National Socialism is prohibited. That includes the swastika, the 'Hitlergruß' (that gesture with the arm to 'hail' the Führer) and various other symbols.
Furthermore there is a crime called 'Volksverhetzung' (roughly instigation or agitation) which mean you can be punished for saying certain things, which includes antisemitism and other forms of racism.
Now as someone who thinks that free speech should be unrestricted one could simply reject that methods. But I think that is too easy. Though I would, if I had to decide, abolish these laws, I can't deny the sense they have. The basic questions are: Should a free Democracy give people the right to agitate against it, with the potential danger of an overthrow of it? Should people have the right to incite hatred towards certain ethnic groups?
I think one should think about the consequences his choice may have very well, no matter what choice that is.
knowltok2
Deity
America allows the freedom of speach even to this disagree because we have enough confidence in ourselves and our system that we are not frightened by the ignorant spouting off. There will always be ignorant, hateful people, the last thing we want is for them to be trying to hide it. Better it is out in the open so that the rational majority can see how sick and twisted it is.
If a nation is so scared of the Nazi party that it is banned, what does that say about their faith in their people?
Philippe: There are idiots that hate in every country and corner of the world. America lets them parade around in their inconsequence. It is better than trying to persecute them which won't result in their eradication, and could actually result in an increase in their draw. Persecution just intesifies hatred.
If a nation is so scared of the Nazi party that it is banned, what does that say about their faith in their people?
Philippe: There are idiots that hate in every country and corner of the world. America lets them parade around in their inconsequence. It is better than trying to persecute them which won't result in their eradication, and could actually result in an increase in their draw. Persecution just intesifies hatred.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
Which assumes that the majority is rational. I think that is questionable...
The same problem. And in Germany it definetely made sense in the late 40s, don't you think?
I think it's dangerous to believe that totalitarianism cannot grow in your country (any country). Still I advocate free speech, but partly because of principles and party because I don't think opression is a solution to that problem. Education would be, but that's hard to archieve.
Nick
Chieftain
The American Nazi Party, if it is the same organization that has been around since the early 1960s, has always enjoyed a prominence in inverse proportion to its membership. In about 1980 it staged a march in memory of its assassinated founder George Lincoln Rockwell. All of 25 members turned out for it (and that was some way over half its entire membership I believe).
Minority opinions will always attract a few adherents. The British Israelite Society, which believes that the British are descended from one of the twelve tribes of Israel, maintained an office in London at least as late as the early 1990s. The Flat Earth Society is still in existence, despite what is surely compelling evidence to the contrary.
Very often organization which feature the word Nazi in their title are little more than attention-seekers anyway. Of the major British far-right organizations, only tow included the words National Socialist in its title (the British Movement founded in the late 1960s changed its name to the British National Socialist Movement in 1976 when its founder Colin Jordan left - National Socialist was dropped again c. 1982, and the earlier National Socialist Movement, c. 1962-1965 and a direct relative of Lincoln' American Nazi Party - again founded and led by Colin Jordan). Even by far-right standards these were tiny organizations, and organizations that aimed at more mainstream targets (even if they remained similarly radical in opinion) tended to play down such comparisons.
Nowadays when it is so easy to establish websites it is probably surprising that there are not more such lunatic fringe movements (perhaps there are, I've never really looked for 'em now I think of it).
Minority opinions will always attract a few adherents. The British Israelite Society, which believes that the British are descended from one of the twelve tribes of Israel, maintained an office in London at least as late as the early 1990s. The Flat Earth Society is still in existence, despite what is surely compelling evidence to the contrary.
Very often organization which feature the word Nazi in their title are little more than attention-seekers anyway. Of the major British far-right organizations, only tow included the words National Socialist in its title (the British Movement founded in the late 1960s changed its name to the British National Socialist Movement in 1976 when its founder Colin Jordan left - National Socialist was dropped again c. 1982, and the earlier National Socialist Movement, c. 1962-1965 and a direct relative of Lincoln' American Nazi Party - again founded and led by Colin Jordan). Even by far-right standards these were tiny organizations, and organizations that aimed at more mainstream targets (even if they remained similarly radical in opinion) tended to play down such comparisons.
Nowadays when it is so easy to establish websites it is probably surprising that there are not more such lunatic fringe movements (perhaps there are, I've never really looked for 'em now I think of it).
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
There are Nazi Parties and extreme right groups in every nation, even the ex-allied ones. Big surprise.
The far right is somewhat interlinked, with well known white supremacist David Duke, former National Director of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, being associated with the American Nazi Party back in the late 1960s, founded by Commander George Lincoln Rockwell.
The extreme right and the extreme commie anarchist left both have a plethora of websites dedicated to them, and someone with a bit of knowhow can find them with sublime ease. They are also fairly easy to find in reality, if you have a bit of knowledge and know where to look.
There is a nice little book "I Was a Teenage Fascist", that is a good read, even though the writer has now treachorously turned red.
Yet not every extreme right wing fascist is a Nazi.
The end point is: What is the big deal? If you don't like it, don't go looking for it. Banning it, or trying to ban it, sends it underground where it is hardly to police. The American Nazi Party, the American National Socialist Movement and their ilk are on the extreme, and don't pose represent much of a threat to society. There are more insidious, smooth evils out there...
The far right is somewhat interlinked, with well known white supremacist David Duke, former National Director of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, being associated with the American Nazi Party back in the late 1960s, founded by Commander George Lincoln Rockwell.
The extreme right and the extreme commie anarchist left both have a plethora of websites dedicated to them, and someone with a bit of knowhow can find them with sublime ease. They are also fairly easy to find in reality, if you have a bit of knowledge and know where to look.
There is a nice little book "I Was a Teenage Fascist", that is a good read, even though the writer has now treachorously turned red.
Yet not every extreme right wing fascist is a Nazi.
The end point is: What is the big deal? If you don't like it, don't go looking for it. Banning it, or trying to ban it, sends it underground where it is hardly to police. The American Nazi Party, the American National Socialist Movement and their ilk are on the extreme, and don't pose represent much of a threat to society. There are more insidious, smooth evils out there...
knowltok2
Deity
Meaning that they might be irrational? Then I guess the people shouldn't be allowed to rule themselves with this 'democracy' and 'voting'. A small group of people who know best should be in charge, and the opinions of the people are secondary to the wisdom of these great leaders. Shall we call them Kings, Czars, Aristocrats, Nobles, Maharajahs, Shoguns, Daimyos, Emperors, Sultans, Fuerhers, Party Elite, Warlords, etc... or should we come up with a new term?
I know this is extreme, but democracy does rest on the premise that the people can make rational decisions for themselves. There are plenty of examples where this is not the case, but in essense, when we don't trust the people, we are going to have problems in our democracy.
Mainly a matter of principle rather than of practicality, These theoretical exercises aside, there isn't much danger of a Nazi takeover in either a country that allows them or bans them.
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
You may address me as Tyrant, or Your Evilness.
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
That's indeed a correct conclusion, the only things one can set against that are Democratic principles, as you already said. I do that, you obviously too, but it could well fail.
They're presently called CEO's
Though 'Wisdom' may not be right word to describe them...
Your Evilness would be okay, but Tyrant is both uncreative and unspecific, you really shouldn't allow that.
knowltok2
Deity
Originally posted by Hitro
That's indeed a correct conclusion, the only things one can set against that are Democratic principles, as you already said. I do that, you obviously too, but it could well fail.
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilence"
Your Evilness would be okay, but Tyrant is both uncreative and unspecific, you really shouldn't allow that.
Shall I add the blashphemer to The List, Your Tyranical Evilness?
Boy this just beats the hell out of work!!!
Edit: Formatting
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
Hey wait! No! I was just giving an advice to His Evilness that may lead to growth of his power. I may be of use!
My German accent is unparalleled.
Ha, he's retreating into quotes!!!
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Do it immediately, and add the name of the blasphemer as well as the "blashphemer".
knowltok2
Deity
Originally posted by Hitro
Hey wait! No! I was just giving an advice to His Evilness that may lead to growth of his power. I may be of use!
My German accent is unparalleled.
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE!!!!
Ha, he's retreating into quotes!!!
Retreating? I was offering it as an agreement and synthesis of our positions. You won't be laughing so loud when your name is on The List, german accent or no!
Sorry, Your Evilness, spelling isn't my stong suit, which I why I sought the Ministry of Women and Other Alien Races as opposed to the Directorate of Spoons (Among other reasons
) Numbers are my strong area, which is why I work at a bank and teach finance as opposed to working at a newspaper and teaching english. "A man's gotta know his limitations." (Yes, another quote Hitro, be silent!)What was the topic again?
Hitro
Feistus Raclettus
That's was percieved as weakness, my dear friend. Now I will demand more. Or no??? I may have an accent but that doesn't mean you need to talk to me like to an infant.
Ah...
Umm...
Simon Darkshade
Mysterious City of Gold
Originally posted by knowltok2
Sorry, Your Evilness, spelling isn't my stong suit, which I why I sought the Ministry of Women and Other Alien Races as opposed to the Directorate of Spoons (Among other reasons
What was the topic again?
Very well, we are an Evil Dictatorship that is inclusive of many talents.
We might even get you a transfer to Gringotts for your dayjob...
And, on the topic, one of the more bemusing/disturbing features of extreme right wing sites I have encountered in my travels is the presence of a white supremacist page specifically for kids as part of Stormfront. Replete with a picture of a long haired 12 year old in a cowboy hat, under which the text outlines his dislike of various racial groups.
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