Barbarian Activity
- Thread starter MaxAstro
- Start date
xienwolf
Deity
Aye, they are valid concerns, and it is making me focus on a section of the code which I am finding is VERY lacking in quality. But it isn't as simple as "defer to how FfH did it" in this case, which is where the nuisance comes in 
What is happening is a cascade effect. We modified something which has caused the Barbarian presence to hurt more (I'm not entirely sure what it was, but hopefully it gets sorted out shortly). This slows down player research. The reduced player research brings it down to a level which should be impossible to survive with, which happens to mean LOWER than that of the Barbarians (because they do research, much like any other Civilization does, but get a bonus to their research rate if other civilizations already know the technology).
In a normal game (barbarians are not able to hold cities long, players are racing to technologies), Barbarian advancement is almost a standstill. But when the Barbarians are able to not just hold a city or 2, but control half the world or more... They can become the tech leader because there exists no reverse mechanic (Barbarians are not prevented from being the first to discover any technology)
As stated, this is something I would never have paid any attention to, because the important key is where the Barbarians are NOT mentioned, which you don't see unless you are looking specifically to have them get special treatment. So unless you are studying Barbarian behavior, the code in this area looks flawless and wouldn't be deemed worth adjusting. So it is great that you bring it up, but the crowd-pleaser in me cringes to hear the same issue brought up 20 times with the assumption that it is something we have done wrong and can easily undo
Anyway, come christmas break I am hoping that the Barbarians take a remarkable turn for the different (and more fun/balanced/tolerable)
What is happening is a cascade effect. We modified something which has caused the Barbarian presence to hurt more (I'm not entirely sure what it was, but hopefully it gets sorted out shortly). This slows down player research. The reduced player research brings it down to a level which should be impossible to survive with, which happens to mean LOWER than that of the Barbarians (because they do research, much like any other Civilization does, but get a bonus to their research rate if other civilizations already know the technology).
In a normal game (barbarians are not able to hold cities long, players are racing to technologies), Barbarian advancement is almost a standstill. But when the Barbarians are able to not just hold a city or 2, but control half the world or more... They can become the tech leader because there exists no reverse mechanic (Barbarians are not prevented from being the first to discover any technology)
As stated, this is something I would never have paid any attention to, because the important key is where the Barbarians are NOT mentioned, which you don't see unless you are looking specifically to have them get special treatment. So unless you are studying Barbarian behavior, the code in this area looks flawless and wouldn't be deemed worth adjusting. So it is great that you bring it up, but the crowd-pleaser in me cringes to hear the same issue brought up 20 times with the assumption that it is something we have done wrong and can easily undo
Anyway, come christmas break I am hoping that the Barbarians take a remarkable turn for the different (and more fun/balanced/tolerable)
Monkeyfinger
Deity
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 2,002
Sarisin, why are you so attached to the raging barbs option anyway?
If you have to turn it off, but get a satisfactory barb experience with the normal barbs setting, I think you should just leave raging off instead of trying to "fix" it and ruining it for the people who do like it how it is.
If you have to turn it off, but get a satisfactory barb experience with the normal barbs setting, I think you should just leave raging off instead of trying to "fix" it and ruining it for the people who do like it how it is.
hahaha, you're right. I am tired of being the voice in the wilderness and will back off.
Honestly, I DID stop playing raging barb games in FFH because of the whole targeting thing. That's why when I came back to FF I thought .43 would have the raging barb targeting thing different. Well, it did - no more being the Chosen One pounded relentlessly by the barbs while other civs expanded untouched long periods of the game.
However, there were those other two things...
The funny thing is I haven't read many comments from those 'liking it as it now is' or agreeing with me, so I'm guessing not many use the raging barb option in FF. Or they may use different game settings than I do.
Regardless, I do solemnly swear to not play raging barb games anymore and not post in this thread.
xienwolf
Deity
I actually haven't seen many posts in favor of how the Barbarians are trashing people, so I would hope that if anyone does like it, these kind of threads would eventually drag out the comments from people who like how things are running. Only one such comment, so I suppose when change comes it'll be well taken.
Feedback on NON-Raging Barbarians are still quite welcome (well, even on raging ones, but most of it is like telling someone with a box of bandaids that it really sucks how your arm was just chopped off. They are a tad more likely to show sympathy to the guy on your left who has a papercut)
Feedback on NON-Raging Barbarians are still quite welcome (well, even on raging ones, but most of it is like telling someone with a box of bandaids that it really sucks how your arm was just chopped off. They are a tad more likely to show sympathy to the guy on your left who has a papercut)
JayThomas
Warlord
I'll use ragin barbs when playing sidar, otherwise I turn them off. They can get pretty fiesty anyways.
I always play with raging barbarians, and barbarian world enabled. Usually at Monarch level.
Other notable variables are Huge Erebus map, Final Five, and every other civ active at the start. For Fall Further, this means 27 civs to begin with, so the barbarians are sometimes rather squeezed. However, depending on starting locations, and Final Five dropouts along the way, they can still be a presence a couple hundred turns into a normally paced game.
Both in vanilla FfH, as well as FF, I wouldn't want any major changes to the barbarian activity based on what other people are having problems with, due to their own particular option choices. On the flip side of that coin, I can understand why they might feel that they are a problem, if their options and playstyles make them a problem.
Other notable variables are Huge Erebus map, Final Five, and every other civ active at the start. For Fall Further, this means 27 civs to begin with, so the barbarians are sometimes rather squeezed. However, depending on starting locations, and Final Five dropouts along the way, they can still be a presence a couple hundred turns into a normally paced game.
Both in vanilla FfH, as well as FF, I wouldn't want any major changes to the barbarian activity based on what other people are having problems with, due to their own particular option choices. On the flip side of that coin, I can understand why they might feel that they are a problem, if their options and playstyles make them a problem.
