Barbarian Men at Arms are unlocked by triggering the eureka for Apprenticeship

[AntSou]

Apologies if this is already known. I haven't played Civ in a while and as far as I remember the problem of Men at Arms spawning too early was thought to be caused by either Babylon or Gaul unlocking Apprenticeship earlier than usual. In the case of Gaul this was caused by the first Oppidum (which only requires the Iron Working tech) unlocking the Apprenticeship tech.

This is not what happened in my current 1v1 Hotseat (Yongle vs Ambiorix). The Men at Arms spawned in a barbarian camp after Ambiorix triggered the Apprenticeship eureka. The tech is yet to be unlocked.

Does anyone have an update on the actual rules? Unlocking the tech is not required, as I previously thought.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I believe it based off of the technology across all the factions? Which means if any other civ has reached the Medieval Era in technology/civics, Men of Arm units will appear.

 

[AntSou]

I believe it based off of the technology across all the factions? Which means if any other civ has reached the Medieval Era in technology/civics, Men of Arm units will appear.

Yongle hasn't unlocked it either.

 

[pokiehl]

I believe it based off of the technology across all the factions? Which means if any other civ has reached the Medieval Era in technology/civics, Men of Arm units will appear.

I think he is saying that in the 1v1, he as Ambiorix has not unlocked the Tech yet, and he can be certain that Yongle has not either.

 

[reddishrecue]

That tech is kinda OP. When barbs used to get it, it was kinda op because they got it early. Only heroes were able to defeat those kinds of encampments.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Is this the case in non Barbarian Clans Mode.

When I have the Grand Eras Units enabled, I notice Composite Bowmen often start appearing early as well.

I wonder if they changed the rules to make Barbarians more challenging (which, I think is the overall idea of the mode to begin with).

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

The first time I enabled Barbarian Clans there was a barbarian Line Infantry causing havoc in the Medieval Era and I noped right there

 

[Iberian]

That tech is kinda OP. When barbs used to get it, it was kinda op because they got it early. Only heroes were able to defeat those kinds of encampments.

I just kill the camps with a scout/ranged unit. The AI is terrible and will send out the encamped unit to attack the ranged unit. Just move the scout in and gg boys we are going home.

 

[cain3456]

I tried a Bohemia mod with Jan Zizka that gave him the gunpowder eureka. With Barbarian clans. Those clans showed up with musketmen at the start. Yeah, I like the idea of Jan Zizka in the game, but that mod's obviously broken.

 

[Jarms48]

It's not just men-at-arms. It's everything. There was a post on reddit a couple of days ago showing barbarian line infantry appearing from the same issue. No civs were even close to the technology available going from the summary bar at the bottom of the tech tree.

There's clearly some kind of bug in the barbarian clans mode where instead of the barbs getting unit access when the first Civ researches a tech, it's instead when the first Civ gets the eureka or researches a tech.

In regular gameplay it's still fine, as that remains 50% of Civs requiring to research a technology.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

It's not just men-at-arms. It's everything. There was a post on reddit a couple of days ago showing barbarian line infantry appearing from the same issue. No civs were even close to the technology available going from the summary bar at the bottom of the tech tree.

There's clearly some kind of bug in the barbarian clans mode where instead of the barbs getting unit access when the first Civ researches a tech, it's instead when the first Civ gets the eureka or researches a tech.

In regular gameplay it's still fine, as that remains 50% of Civs requiring to research a technology.

Or it's by design.

First of all, nearly all of the game modes are "extreme", TOurism from Monopolies is ridonkulus, and the Heroes, Sercret Societies and Apocalypse mode are just as intense.

I've always seen that Barbarian Clans were more in line with "raging barbarians" more so than anything else, so maybe this was intended?

 

[pokiehl]

Or it's by design.

First of all, nearly all of the game modes are "extreme", TOurism from Monopolies is ridonkulus, and the Heroes, Sercret Societies and Apocalypse mode are just as intense.

I've always seen that Barbarian Clans were more in line with "raging barbarians" more so than anything else, so maybe this was intended?

I doubt that’s the case. It’s not documented anywhere as a specific feature and I’m not sure I agree that clans mode is “raging barbarians” mode.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I doubt that’s the case. It’s not documented anywhere as a specific feature and I’m not sure I agree that clans mode is “raging barbarians” mode.

Honestly, if it was a bug, then it would affect normal game, and I've yet to hear whether or that is the case.

So if it's only on Barbarian Clans, then it seems to be done with thought behind it. They changed the rules for that mode somehow.

 

[pokiehl]

Honestly, if it was a bug, then it would affect normal game, and I've yet to hear whether or that is the case.

So if it's only on Barbarian Clans, then it seems to be done with thought behind it. They changed the rules for that mode somehow.

There can absolutely be mode-specific bugs, version-specific bugs, or anything in between.

 

[Urlance Woolsbane]

Honestly, if it was a bug, then it would affect normal game, and I've yet to hear whether or that is the case.

So if it's only on Barbarian Clans, then it seems to be done with thought behind it. They changed the rules for that mode somehow.

Clans select units differently than ordinary barbarians, each one having different preferences and a unique unit that belongs to a civ that wasn't selected for the current game, so I think this is very probably a gamemode-exclusive bug

 

[pokiehl]

In Civ 6, Men at Arms spawning from barbarian camps is triggered by any civilization entering the Classical Era, regardless of specific tech unlocks. This can lead to early appearances if an opponent triggers era advancement through civics, Great People, or other means.

This is a non-sequitur ChatGPT generated response that has missed the point of the discussion at hand.

 

[AntSou]

This is a non-sequitur ChatGPT generated response that has missed the point of the discussion at hand.

I noticed. And it's the second post like that. The first one was equally odd:

"Curious to gauge the impact of 1UPT's return in Civ 7 on player purchases – thoughts on its influence in this forum's diverse player segment?" This was posted on the 4th page of the thread called: "How does 1UPT effect if you will buy Civ 7"

The player request is literally the entire point of the thread. It makes no sense.

 

[Jarms48]

Honestly, if it was a bug, then it would affect normal game, and I've yet to hear whether or that is the case.

So if it's only on Barbarian Clans, then it seems to be done with thought behind it. They changed the rules for that mode somehow.

It's suppose to work like this:
- Regular gameplay: 50% of civs need to research a tech.
- Barbarian mode: 1 civ needs to research a tech.

Barbarian mode is currently bugged in that it goes off the eureka and not the competed tech. I've seen line infantry and garde impériale in the Medieval era. You think that's intended?

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

It's suppose to work like this:
- Regular gameplay: 50% of civs need to research a tech.
- Barbarian mode: 1 civ needs to research a tech.

Barbarian mode is currently bugged in that it goes off the eureka and not the competed tech. I've seen line infantry and garde impériale in the Medieval era. You think that's intended?

In Barbarian Clans, I've seen Barbarian Musketmen at the beginning of the Classical Era, long before any Civ in the game had any Tech near Gunpowder, so there's no 'logical' reason for it. Furthermore, if you find the Camp spawning the Musketmen and check on it, it gives you the option to buy Musketmen from it at least a full Era or two before you could possibly research the Tech required.

My option is to use a Mod to delete the Camp and all Musketmen. If you immediately generate a new Camp on or next to the site, it generates Units more in keeping with the current Era in the game. Furthermore, only a small fraction of Camps generate advanced Units in any game, so it's all pure buggeroony.

Having to use a Mod and a work around to keep the game even marginally playable is, of course, evidence of how broken the game is and has been for over a year.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I think Barbs getting more advanced units sometimes is great. It actually throws me a curveball once in a while. I had a whole war against a neighboring Civ get completely [borked] because a Barbarian near me starting producing Men-at-Arms, and suddenly I was fighting on 3 fronts (the AI civ had a City-State fighting me too, but I was prepared for that). It's not often this game surprises me, but I really had to scramble. It completely changed the course of the game. It was awesome. More mayhem, please.