Barbarian Men at Arms are unlocked by triggering the eureka for Apprenticeship

[Nikolai II]

Barbs get the median tech level in the world.

 

[Canadian Bluebeer]

With barb clans on, I've had them START with Destroyers a couple of times, caravels other times.
(of course I BUY them from the clan as soon as I can!) <evil grin>

 

[Airey]

 

[reddishrecue]

View attachment 675797

Does it really work like this or just a joke?

 

[Airey]

Does it really work like this or just a joke?

In Gotm 165, I used Varangian to levy Man-At-Arms from barb clans for a t78 domination win.
In addition to CS, his UA also works with barb clans. It'll be too expensive for other civ that early in the game.

With Unifier, allow the scout to come find our city and let it go back to barb camp,
Build the warrior till 1t left and store in queue, until the 1st melee barb comes in close.
Use warrior to convert the 1st barb melee unit, and fortify in the city.
Wait until the city health is down to the last drop to convert more units. Works even better in tundra areas (rush buy warrior, barrack + wall).
from Gotm 156, on turn 10, I have 5 military units at my disposal:
3 healthy ones act as scout, 2 damaged one guarding cap and 2nd city.

 

[Tuvok694]

@EgonSpengler I have exactly the opposite opinion. I often start a game with the intent to test a certain strategy. And then, out of nowhere, three barbarian men-at-arms and four crossbows appear, long before I have my first swordsman.
The developers could have implemented a simple compromise (but they didn't): Add one or two setup options regarding "barbarian aggressiveness/progress/spawn rate", like in earlier Civ versions where you could enable or disable "raging barbarians" if you choose to play this way. Currently we only have those raging maniacs, and the game has arrived at the end of development. Turning barbs off completely is not a solution for me because the AI is even stronger then.

 

[EgonSpengler]

@EgonSpengler I have exactly the opposite opinion. I often start a game with the intent to test a certain strategy. And then, out of nowhere, three barbarian men-at-arms and four crossbows appear, long before I have my first swordsman.
The developers could have implemented a simple compromise (but they didn't): Add one or two setup options regarding "barbarian aggressiveness/progress/spawn rate", like in earlier Civ versions where you could enable or disable "raging barbarians" if you choose to play this way. Currently we only have those raging maniacs, and the game has arrived at the end of development. Turning barbs off completely is not a solution for me because the AI is even stronger then.

Isn't part of testing a strategy testing its robustness and flexibility in the face of unexpected events? But yes, in general I am in favor of more buttons or sliders that would let us finetune any number of variables. I don't see why Barbarians should have only 3 'settings' (regular; Raging; and Barbarian Clans, which is what I use). For example, there could be an option to always keep Barbarians one or more tech levels behind the Civ whose land they spawn near, or something like that. I'd like to see an option for Barbarians to spawn inside settled land, to reflect rebel groups, secessionists, citizen uprisings, drug cartels, etc. (Actually, this entire game stops evolving around the Industrial Revolution, top to bottom. Its depiction of 'Barbarians' past the 18th or 19th Century is just one thing that needs a near-complete revamp.)

 

[Airey]

out of nowhere, three barbarian men-at-arms and four crossbows appear

Try placing archer or 1-turn builder 5 tiles away from new city centers to fog bust. The problem is spawning barb camp, not the strength of the barbarians.

 

[Aurelesk]

Yet, Barbarian Outpost can even spawn in a 1-tile fog. I had 3 cities in a triangle with just 1 tile in the middle with no visibility. It spawned there, with the Scout being in line of sight of my Archer.

I can't count the number of tile the Barbarian were spawning just at the border of the beginning of the fog while being really close to my cities.

Sometimes I wonder if the Recon unit that spot a city to raid could trigger multiple time the Barbarian outpost, explaining the never-ending horde of unit, or some odd double-spawn from now and then.
Something like:
- Recon is within 1 tile of Barbarian = 1 raid party.
- Recon start the turn within 1 tile of Barbarian outpost = no longer in "have spotted a city" so unable to trigger a new raid party.
But if the Scout goes next and then go away the same turn, and do it that back and forth multiple time, it would create multiple raid?

I would argue that the activity of a Barbarian Outpost is too uncorrelated to its surrounding. A Snow desert shouldn't be Barbarian paradise. They could spawn there but they shouldn't be able to thrive.

 

[Canadian Bluebeer]

One thing that makes it confusing, is if you do Barb Clans and the Tech/Civic shuffle.
The barb spawns can get very very odd.

(but not always, I've never been able to pin it down as to what causes it)

 

[Dedrytus]

Do you remember Vedic Aryans random event from civ4? It was Game Over Event. Nowadays barbs are only annoying ;-).

 

[Mahi]

Barbaraian mode is the only mod I play with all the time and I honestly very rarely see any issues with the barbarians advancement. Are you sure you are not playing with any other mods that could end up trigger the barbarian's advancement earlier than designed to? I usually play on immortal.
The barbs need to have some advancement leap to ensure they keep relevance in the game.. if they were always lacking behind or just on pair it wouldn't really do anything to the game. It's fun when they surprise you with a unit that is harder than you would expect. It reminds you to not completely ignore the barbs if they are too close by. In any case, barb camps always end up being early gold farms.

The most annoying barbs you can get is a coastal encampment with a barb galley hindering you getting your luxury and food ressources on coastal city that depends on coastal tiles for growth.

 

[Tuvok694]

Just played as Pericles. So proud of my first two hoplites...until they met barbarian line infantry. Immediate rage quit.
(I know I don't have the necessary patience for this game. That's why I'm so bad.)

 

[Shirotora Kenshin]

Just played as Pericles. So proud of my first two hoplites...until they met barbarian line infantry. Immediate rage quit.
(I know I don't have the necessary patience for this game. That's why I'm so bad.)

Still you like this game somehow, otherwise you would not play it
I think it‘s cool that you still try.

 

[Naokaukodem]

Just played as Pericles. So proud of my first two hoplites...until they met barbarian line infantry. Immediate rage quit.
(I know I don't have the necessary patience for this game. That's why I'm so bad.)

lol, it must have been quite a bad surprise. Are you sure you don't play on Deity ? You could go some steps back. I know, I myself only play Deity when I don't always win. (mostly because I didn't pay attention to districts building early, or because I set up the game with barbs but with no c-S -bad idea-, or things I might try and that fail miserably. I created a topic specifically for my rage quits, but I should update it more often... well, that might be because I have a sense it's my fault most of the cases, you have to think in Civ6, and I must say I'm not a fan of thinking. I'm a brute, I know it. That cost me my life, I'm more a zombie than anything else now. Well, at least with Civ6 Deity I had a wish granted : be challenged in the thinking department. That's exactly what they did. Can't say the same for other Civs before Civ4 - included ? - I've changed too -)