barbarian tech

[mike1979]

im not sure if this is a bug or not, but i've noticed in the newest release that by the time i get get spiked clubmen the barbarian s already have archers and javelineers! do the barbs get techs faster now or is this a new option that im not aware of?

it just seems to me that archers at turn 100 is a LITTLE op

 

[strategyonly]

im not sure if this is a bug or not, but i've noticed in the newest release that by the time i get get spiked clubmen the barbarian s already have archers and javelineers! do the barbs get techs faster now or is this a new option that im not aware of?

it just seems to me that archers at turn 100 is a LITTLE op

Yeah i had it increased a little, but what do they do anyways, more or less just stay around their cities and guard it and ONCE in awhile send a scout/archer out to explore is all, so i had to make them better, that way YOU (the Human player) just can get "free" cities like you used to.

It just makes the game more interesting and more strategy for the humans to do is all, or do you still disagree??

If i had MY choice i'd even make the Barbarian Cities stronger, so there are no runaway civ(s), just taking over their cities.

 

[pi4t]

I'm not sure that giving them units which are higher tech than the playable civilisations' is a good solution to this, though. They are meant to be 'barbarians', after all, and making them the most advanced race is...odd. Perhaps a better option would be to improve their ai (though obviously this is hard, and may not be realistically feasible), or offer some penalty to conquered barbarian cities. While the penalty shouldn't be permanent, it should mean that early game these 'free cities' won't give that much of an advantage (and of course later on there are a lot more cities in each civilisation anyway, so it doesn't matter so much). What it should be, I'm not sure. A large penalty (say -50%) to food and production? A simple inability to gain any bonus food? I'm sure there's a better solution than giving them too high tech units, which may break verisimilitude and will essentially remove them from the game as more than impassable terrain until later on.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I've never personally felt the AI had any great advantage with the way the barbarians were. I'm in full agreement - barbs should never even match a player on tech. Just doesn't suit the real world experience. They could be given the ability to produce faster perhaps.

I also almost never take barbarian cities for the keeping. They tend to be planted in the most horrible locations and when building my empires I want my cities where I want them. In fact, I'm often found tearing apart and razing entire enemy nations just so I can recolonize their territories in what I feel is the 'correct' way to place the cities, so its not just barbs, but their placements are generally worse.

In the best case scenario, I see barbs as being good for training your armies (and those armies shouldn't find battles against them terribly difficult so they should have a high survival rate in combat against barbs.) This notch-up sounds like a very bad idea according to that ideal.

But long ago, I realized you were one of those players I'd never understand that wants barbs to be a VERY real threat that sets you back at every turn (your appreciation for Raging Barbs said it all) and since I'm all for catering to all types of players, perhaps if it were possible to make the Raging Barbs option enhance them in the way you've done, it could work to provide for your player preferences while leaving room for those like myself who would prefer Barbs to be a minor annoyance at best.

 

[strategyonly]

Again i got out voted before when i wanted Neanderthals even in a HIGHER context, meaning i'd double, maybe even triple the about of Neanderthals presently in the game, but as you'll say its not realistic, but its ALOT MORE FUN when Ancient Era comes around and they "swarm" your cities, i used to like that ALOT, but thats not the case anymore, so i took the lesser of the 2 evil's and just boosted up the Barbs, heck its only a 5-15% advantage (and thats only up to Ancient Era, then its goes way down again.
BUT i am talking ONLY about fighting wise, not TECH wise, i never did anything to that, it might be just that the Barbs were that ONE lucky group that got there faster, isn't there ALWAYS, "one" group faster, well that might have been them this time, heck i dont know, never heard of this problem before, so i am just guessing

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm not quite sure how Barb techs are earned - if it differs.

If you'd like, I'd be quite happy to make a Frenzied Barbarians gameoption at some point that would push the barb levels through the roof for you...

Out of curiosity, how did you go about enhancing them then?

 

[strategyonly]

I'm not quite sure how Barb techs are earned - if it differs.

If you'd like, I'd be quite happy to make a Frenzied Barbarians gameoption at some point that would push the barb levels through the roof for you...

Out of curiosity, how did you go about enhancing them then?

Nope dont want the Frenzied Barbs, heck i dont even use Agg Barbs, thats not my intent. I just wanted them smarter. So it might have taken on a tech increase, but i doubt it. I had Koshling do it about 2 or less months ago. (When the Barbs were jus sitting by there cities and doing nothing, not even sending out a scout, at least now we have that.) But still not up to my intent. Also i wanted the POP to go up faster.

 

[JosEPh_II]

Imo the Barbs are fine as they are. I think you found a good setting for them SO.

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

I think that Barbs are OK where they are now. You don't need to worry about them too much, as the Tribal Guardian should help a lot, and you can get a decent defensive bonus in your capital by turn 100. But Barb World will indeed give you a more challenging experience dealing with the barbarians.

 

[Raven Destroyer]

I did notice that one of the AI got severely bogged down because of Barbs but not in a manner i find troublesome or worrying with 5 civ's on 1 island that is large enough for 2 Civs around middle ages-Renaissance usually 2 Civ's will be fighting a struggle for controle (what is my case being 1 of the two mayor powers) the 3th civ (and the one not yet being targeted as an expansion possibility) got a chance to get above the Barb bogging and well the last two met a timely demise at my sword 1 of them being good sport to be hunted

 

[strategyonly]

Imo the Barbs are fine as they are. I think you found a good setting for them SO.JosEPh

I think that Barbs are OK where they are now. You don't need to worry about them too much, as the Tribal Guardian should help a lot, and you can get a decent defensive bonus in your capital by turn 100. But Barb World will indeed give you a more challenging experience dealing with the barbarians.

I completely agree with you both on this NOW!! Thx.

I did notice that one of the AI got severely bogged down because of Barbs but not in a manner i find troublesome or worrying with 5 civ's on 1 island that is large enough for 2 Civs around middle ages-Renaissance usually 2 Civ's will be fighting a struggle for control (what is my case being 1 of the two mayor powers) the 3th civ (and the one not yet being targeted as an expansion possibility) got a chance to get above the Barb bogging and well the last two met a timely demise at my sword 1 of them being good sport to be hunted

I have noticed this also, but it started showing up more after the change because they lived longer, the way i wanted it. But thats when everything got to RL for everyone around, but i am still thinking about it, so thx for at least saying something.

 

[IronClaymore]

I've seen barbarians sending out actual stacks now. They can't support proper stacks of doom, but decent sized hordes, say 10-15 units, against both me and the AI civs. They're great fun, but I wish they'd all come for me.

When I get to the exploration era of caravels and such, I often find islands or continents covered in barbarian cities, but because I have the "Assimilation" option on I can see that these cities used to belong to civilizations. I've seen it happen directly if I can get a mountaineering unit to safety near a 3+ barbarian city. The city becomes a civ with a half dozen units, and before it can build any culture defense or more units or do that thing where it develops and pops a golden age and gets a bunch of free units, a barbarian stack comes and retakes it.

Stacks containing neanderthals can sometimes be annoying too, but for a different reason. They move to an enemy city, but their -city attack tells their AI they don't stand a chance attacking the city, so they sit there, while the neanderthals high strength tells the civ's AI that it doesn't stand a chance trying to expel them, so they sit inside the city. All their improvements get pillaged by the barbarians, who occupy the high-yield plots, and they can't even send out units to hunt animals. It ends up with a crippled civilization that falls way behind.