Barbarian trait should allow stealing technology from razed cities

[Fafnir13]

Just on the subject of war weariness....
I'd prefer that any and all nerfs to war weariness not be dolled out just to the barb civs. I'd much prefer it be tied to either alignment, specific civs based on lore, or just for everyone since FFH2 is more of a war game than vanilla.
Not that I know much. All I know is that my silly balseraph citizens are whining about war whilst I thoroughly mop the floor with the elves (their pointy ears help with getting into the corners and under furniture). It would just be nice if my citizens recognized how I'm making the world a better place for them...

 

[Grand Seeker]

Fafnir13, I agree that war weariness could be tweaked for all races etc.

But on the topic of barbarians, I think that giving the barbarian threat a bonus that feels 'barbarian' would be a much better than letting them 'steal technology' when they capture cities. Which doesn't realy seem to fit a 'barbarian' which are destructive.

 

[uberfish]

And when you loot a libary, you get knowledge. So a city with libary could grant some researchpoints.

Not if you're barbarians who can't read!

 

[smusebaer]

babarians couldn´t speak latin very well. No one said something about reading or riding. But if they couldn´t read they steal the libarian along with the books...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Barbarians weren't all bad at Latin

"TETEROROMAMANUNUDADATETELALATETE" - Alaric the Visigoth
("I wipe you out, Rome, with my bare hand. Give up your weapons. Hide." Its cooler in Latin though since it consists of pairs of repeated syllables.)


I'd typically expect that books and librarians wouldn't be high on a barbarians priority list. They would probably learn all they could about things directly related to war though.

 

[xienwolf]

You kidding? The books would be one of the highlights of the raid for the Huns In My Opinion. Great Firestarter.

 

[Ringtailed]

I always hated that "tech from conquest" thing from earlier civ games. It just creates a disincentive to do anything but fight continuously. Though that makes sense for barbarians, I'd rather see it represented in some other fashion. Besides, if you let barbarian leaders steal techs from conquest *and* research techs themselves they'd be tech leader, even with their penalties.

On the other hand, maybe if barbarian leaders were forbidden from doing any of their own research at all...

 

[Arctic Circle]

Well. If it could be implemented as a selectable choice when you make a custom game? They just don't cross that option if you don't like it?

All civs gain a percentage change per taken city to gain a technology? Perhaps a bit less when it comes to Barbarians.

If you want a real world example, I would suggest you look at the crusades. We jump-started the end of the dark ages by robbing the Arabs blind. Yes we burned, killed, looted and so forth. But things rubbed off. And people went home with some thoughts of 'hey, perhaps medicine really shouldn't be about rubbing dirt in the wounds and praying' and 'how about those baths'? Not to mention all the books that wasn't burned..

Or the Mongols. Wow. Don't get me started on the Mongols, and how they stole technology by conquest.

Or the Romans.

Not being able to gain technologies by conquest is totally backwards for me. Both in the game and in reality. And war costs resources. Horrible amounts of recourses. All those hammers and gold could go into producing research instaed.

But we got a fine example on a mod that uses this. I'll surely take a look at it.

 

[Pyr0mancer]

If you want a real world example, I would suggest you look at the crusades. We jump-started the end of the dark ages by robbing the Arabs blind. Yes we burned, killed, looted and so forth. But things rubbed off. And people went home with some thoughts of 'hey, perhaps medicine really shouldn't be about rubbing dirt in the wounds and praying' and 'how about those baths'? Not to mention all the books that wasn't burned..

The order is rape, loot, pillage, THEN burn

Not being able to gain technologies by conquest is totally backwards for me. Both in the game and in reality. And war costs resources. Horrible amounts of recourses. All those hammers and gold could go into producing research instaed.

I agree, having some form of technology leak would be much more realistic. For balance reasons, I think a rubber-band mechanic like reducing the costs depending on the number of civs that already have the tech would work best. However, the barbarian civs probably should have some way of gaining tech via conquest, even if it is just military and related techs.

 

[andrew_yaweb]

The chance to get a tech should be small. I'd rather see some research points boost but not the complete tech. You should have to do some research yourself since your are a 'barbarian'.

 

[Monkeyfinger]

I've long thought that a rubber band mechanic on tech progression would improve the game a lot (and is historically represented). What I am thinking is along the lines of, any civilization gains a +25% bonus towards researching any tech for each civilization they have contact with who already possesses that tech. Thus if you are the last of seven civs to get a certain tech, you get a +150% bonus to your research rate towards that particular tech. I think this would accurately represent "tech leak" since the hard thing is thinking of it the first time, copying is relatively easy, and the more you see the tech in action the easier it is.

Yeah, punishing players for doing well is such good game design.

 

[Ecofarm]

How about instead of a tech, you get some research points. Like, 10x city size.

 

[uberfish]

The order is rape, loot, pillage, THEN burn
I agree, having some form of technology leak would be much more realistic. For balance reasons, I think a rubber-band mechanic like reducing the costs depending on the number of civs that already have the tech would work best.

This already exists in civ4.

Seriously though, stealing tech on conquest used to be part of the civ series but was removed for game balance reasons

 

[Switchblock]

Well what is the flavor of teh doviello was changed completely? What if they were set up like the Ghenghis Khan scenario from Warlords? They have no cities, only traveling camps, and can only steal technology. Gameplay wise it would still be a huge change of pace trying to play as them, and lore wise that's pretty much what the doviello are.

The clan would have to do something differant, perhaps instead of needed the higher technologies, they could have mid-tier units stronger then everyone elses, then not get many top-tier units? It makes sence, an ogre wouldn't learn much reading, it would be strong early, and stay the same strength.

 

[xaliger]

Barbarian trait NEEDS something to be done. And this is best idea I heard about up to now. Nowadays barb trait is worst (even worse than def)

Barb trait = -10% (more?) science but conquring a city (not razing) gives you certain amout of random tech a conquered nation have. Number of points depends on city size/number opf buildings/number of traderoutes.

 

[DuckAndCower]

I've been kicking around the idea of trying to make a scavenger-themed goblin civ for a few days now. Once of the things I would like to include (in the almost non-existent chance I followed through) would be to seriously gimp science production, but allow acquiring techs by conquering cities. However, the problem I see with allowing techs to be gained through conquest is that it would be awfully tempting for a player to simply allow the AI to take a city, then take it back, gaining a tech, then let the AI take it again, get a tech, etc. The only solution that comes to mind, then, is to only allow each city to provide a tech once. However, that causes some serious balance issues dependent on map size. On a duel map, you might only get a few techs this way, while on a huge map you'd probably conquer enough to get through all the techs with room to spare. I have some ideas for possible workarounds / alternate methods of tech acquisition, but I'm thinking that allowing any Barbarian civs to gain tech through conquest would create some major headaches for the dev team.