Barbarians in AND

[szemek77]

Rom 2.81/AND 1.54

Something strange happened to barbarian activity. I played couple games on AND, and I would say, I can take a brake from barbarians. I remember that without AND they used to come all the time to my cities. Now, I can see a change - they usually don't come (or appear very rarely) but they build many, many cities all around the world.

I'm not saying I miss them, but I'm considering checking the raging barbarians option in my next game.

Any comments on that? Or maybe you have different experience?

 

[damunzy]

Raging Barbarians (RB) are fun and get you some high level troops without having to go to war. The Great Wall becomes very welcome indeed when you start having cultivated lands and start hitting the limit of free troops to defend your empire. I used RB for a couple of games in AND 1.53.

 

[civ_king]

Barbarian World+Raging Barbarians is fun

 

[Afforess]

Rom 2.81/AND 1.54

Something strange happened to barbarian activity. I played couple games on AND, and I would say, I can take a brake from barbarians. I remember that without AND they used to come all the time to my cities. Now, I can see a change - they usually don't come (or appear very rarely) but they build many, many cities all around the world.

I'm not saying I miss them, but I'm considering checking the raging barbarians option in my next game.

Any comments on that? Or maybe you have different experience?

Barbarians haven't been altered by me in any way, but RevDCM has, so you may be seeing changes from them. Try raging barbs or Barb world. On a small map with 10 other civs it means chaos.

 

[os79]

I modded 18 civs Earth map to just three civs, with BarbCivs on to add civs eventually. I decided to go ahead and try out raging barbarians. Guess what?

1. It slows down the barbarians' capability to grow into civs.

2. It is maddening ocean of barbarians ganging up on my capital .

I thought it would be cool option if I can half its effect... the halfway point between normal and the current raging barbarians. That would be just beautiful. So I'm back to normal .

 

[Draakon]

For me, in the 18 Earth Huge scenario, Deity difficulty, Aztec, China, Mongolians have been already wiped out at 4500 BC with Raging Barbarians on.

 

[szemek77]

For me, in the 18 Earth Huge scenario, Deity difficulty, Aztec, China, Mongolians have been already wiped out at 4500 BC with Raging Barbarians on.

Yes, in one of my games they destroyed Byzantine Civ, however they rarely appeared in my area.

Barbarian World+Raging Barbarians is fun

I think I'll try it out. As a builder I will have trouble to abandon my strategy, which is NOT concentrating on military (although, I always keep my power at reasonable level, in order not to provoke my enemies), but I imagine, with these two option ON, one has to guard every worker and strategic infrastructure.

It bothers me though, that due to the limit of XP gained from barb combat, my army wouldn't get much from fighting barbarian flood. But I hope that raging barbs would constrain AI development as well.

 

[os79]

It bothers me though, that due to the limit of XP gained from barb combat, my army wouldn't get much from fighting barbarian flood.

You can install ROME's Rules module. It has one important globedefine that put 10000 as a top limit of getting xp from barbarians. Or just go into GlobeDefines.xml and change that yourself.

 

[szemek77]

You can install ROME's Rules module. It has one important globedefine that put 10000 as a top limit of getting xp from barbarians. Or just go into GlobeDefines.xml and change that yourself.

Thank you for this hint

 

[Talin2009]

I once played a deity game on GEM (Genghiz Giant Earth Map) with raging barbs on. I was playing Celts with original civ's starting positions, so i started where Paris would be. Very soon all that was left from non-barbs were western europe (me finishing Germans and some respawning civs like vikings), England on their island and (supposedly) Japanese. Everything else was one big happy barbarian land, sending huge stacks to every civ that would emerge. As soon as i was able to make spearmen (it was old RoM version where you could make spearmen with Stone Tools and Hunting, before javelineers were introduced) i made stack of 5 of them and sent them to travel and pillage small civs for gold and starting techs. But very soon there was nothing to conquer except barbarians everywhere.

I managed to finish Great Wall and kill England, after that it became simcity, tho i didnt get conquest victory (probaby due to Japanese). Only closer to renessaince some civs started to appear in China and India region. By that time (after discovering Social Contract and switching to Federal) i started to quickly expand and soon won domination victory.

Anyhow, my observations about raging barbs on high level diff games are that AI barbarians play as single player, thus in raging barb world it accumulates big stacks and crush early AI civs easily with its spawning waves.

 

[Talin2009]

(dbl post)

 

[Afforess]

I once played a deity game on GEM (Genghiz Giant Earth Map) with raging barbs on. I was playing Celts with original civ's starting positions, so i started where Paris would be. Very soon all that was left from non-barbs were western europe (me finishing Germans and some respawning civs like vikings), England on their island and (supposedly) Japanese. Everything else was one big happy barbarian land, sending huge stacks to every civ that would emerge. As soon as i was able to make spearmen (it was old RoM version where you could make spearmen with Stone Tools and Hunting, before javelineers were introduced) i made stack of 5 of them and sent them to travel and pillage small civs for gold and starting techs. But very soon there was nothing to conquer except barbarians everywhere.

I managed to finish Great Wall and kill England, after that it became simcity, tho i didnt get conquest victory (probaby due to Japanese). Only closer to renessaince some civs started to appear in China and India region. By that time (after discovering Social Contract and switching to Federal) i started to quickly expand and soon won domination victory.

Anyhow, my observations about raging barbs on high level diff games are that AI barbarians play as single player, thus in raging barb world it accumulates big stacks and crush early AI civs easily with its spawning waves.

Interesting post. You inadvertantly gave me a good idea to improve the AI. In games where barbarians are more active, I'll make it so the AI value the great wall more.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Interesting post. You inadvertantly gave me a good idea to improve the AI. In games where barbarians are more active, I'll make it so the AI value the great wall more.

Evil, but good!

 

[Afforess]

Evil, but good!

I just submitted my code proposal to Better AI. I included a custom version for the new game options I have. If you turn barbarians way up, expect a race to the Great Wall.

 

[Talin2009]

It still leaves problem of non-GW AI nations to withstand barbs Seriously, i was shocked seeig those stacks of 15-20 barbs crushing on poor AI's. While i was moving my stack back i had to wait every other few turns before trying to cross open terrain from one hill/forest to another because barbs troops moving resembled traffic in city peak-time. I personally think raging barbs option on high diff + big maps need serious tweaking otherwise it's unplayable.

Offtopic: speaking about AI's behaviour i found that most problem AI have is due to stupid strategic decisions like sending troops around world (30-40 turns) then declare war, capture one city only to lose it few turns after. I mean that doesnt make any sense whatsoever yet AI's doing it whole time. If AI would concentrate on expanding it's current borders into neighbours it would make them evolve into much stronger empires.

 

[Elana]

I have played two games w raging barbs. Both games, they savaged an entire landmass, completely destroyed any civs. The prospect of invading the barb continent is, well a barbaric endeavor. Might the approach Wyre uses for his 'independent' civs have something to offer here. I don't really thing a continent of barbs should all act like one happy family, and combine everywhere. With independent kingdoms / civs, position and location again enter into strategy. When it all on giant happy barbarian continent, its an attrition slugfest.