Barbarians spawn in my land???HELP!!!

[Louis XXIV]

C'mon, Louis. That's a huge honkin' slippery slope fallacy.

Well, yes and no. I realize that there's no reason you have to give a mouse a glass of milk just because you gave him a cookie, but the hyperbole was there to illustrate a point. There are all sorts of creative choices one can choose to do. None are inherently better than others. I'm not saying it wouldn't be a nice small thing, but I think all of these things are nice small things. I'm just saying I'm not going to fault them for not choosing that specific small thing - particularly since I can count the number of times that barbarian uprisings due to unhappiness has happened to me on one hand, so it's going to rarely be seen (compare this to wonders or great works, which is designed to encourage you to see the effort they put into it).

In a new happiness system where such reports were built in for both positives and negatives (perhaps combining the We Love the King Day system) I could see it. But I really can't see it as a worthwhile use of resources for a system that was tacked on in a patch and was essentially created solely because people would exploit the game by running -100 happiness and conquer the world.

ETA: It's worth noting that the slippery slope is better described as a metaphor, not a fallacy. There's nothing inherently wrong with slippery slopes as long as you can explain why they are, in fact, slippery. Most slippery slopes fail because those who raise them fail to think this through. But if there is a reason for why going to X will lead to Z, it's not inherently wrong to consider it.

 

[sock ruh tease]

science advisor: "i agree, sire. Clearly the financial advisor was suffering some sort of delusional psychosis. He posed a threat to us all. you saved our lives! Now that's efficiency!"

ftfy.

 

[Jatta Pake]

Hmm I wonder if this could be, what's the word for it, ah there it is -- exploited somehow?

Also @ Jatta Pake, please write a story of the ultimate ruler and his divine wisdom in the Stories & Tales section, or I'll have you detained and force you to do it at gunpoint.

Working on it!

Thank you!

 

[steveg700]

In a new happiness system where such reports were built in for both positives and negatives (perhaps combining the We Love the King Day system) I could see it. But I really can't see it as a worthwhile use of resources for a system that was tacked on in a patch and was essentially created solely because people would exploit the game by running -100 happiness and conquer the world.t.

We're not talking about a pie-in-the-sky, wouldn't-it-be-nice component. The communication of game concepts that impact a player's experience is fundamental. It doesn't need to happen often if the impact of the effect is catastrophic. The whole "use of resources" is an oft-used canard. Providing a notification for when an event occurs is not a colossal undertaking, and quite simply should not even be considered a separate project from programming the event itself. If they are so dearly overextended that they can't type up a notification, they shouldn't be coding in the event either.

As for players exploiting the fact that the penalties for unhappiness were tolerable, the adage of "hate the game, not the player" applies.

I'm pretty sure an exclamation point notification does appear on the right hand side of the screen when you spawn rebels. It says something to the tune of "Because your empire is at -10 happiness, rebels have spawned in your territory!"

Never happened to me, but if that is the case, then good on them.

 

[otaman1]

Why are rebels barbarians? Little kids might get confused. It should have that rebel colour from EU

 

[Louis XXIV]

We're not talking about a pie-in-the-sky, wouldn't-it-be-nice component. The communication of game concepts that impact a player's experience is fundamental. It doesn't need to happen often if the impact of the effect is catastrophic. The whole "use of resources" is an oft-used canard. Providing a notification for when an event occurs is not a colossal undertaking, and quite simply should not even be considered a separate project from programming the event itself. If they are so dearly overextended that they can't type up a notification, they shouldn't be coding in the event either.

It might be I misunderstood what was originally suggested. I thought it was a more involved role-playing type process with news headlines about protesters on the street protesting your rule. Then, as unhappiness increased, the protests grew more severe. If the point is just that there needs to be a game notification, I don't disagree, but I'm pretty sure that's already the case. Both a quick flash by text up top and an icon that drops down the side.

 

[fromeast2west]

They could make the whole thing self correcting by taking the rebel units directly from the population of your most unhappy city. That would be more a more realistic model of large scale civil war and work well within the game mechanics.

 

[kingofsealand]

Yeah i agree there already is a warning, the same kind of symbol you would see if a civ stole land from you with a great general. It says something along the lines of rebels have spawned near so and so

 

[Callonia]

This thread exists because Firaxis is still too lazy to rename the barbarians into Rebels. We're on third expansion and they still haven't done a damn rename.

Shame on you firaxis.

 

[MarshalN]

I seem to remember in Civ2 when you have partisans rising up there would be a dialogue screen that tells you that. I haven't had a rebellion in Civ5 yet but I think that's a good way to handle it - maybe a screen similar to the notices you get about GP appearing.

 

[Louis XXIV]

They could make the whole thing self correcting by taking the rebel units directly from the population of your most unhappy city. That would be more a more realistic model of large scale civil war and work well within the game mechanics.

That would work very well. It would also help solve the problem because, once that population gets killed off, you'll stop having as much unhappiness.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Yeah, I think they start spawning at -10 now instead of -20.

It can be annoying or fun, depending on the circumstances.

I have to note that since the change, I see rebels spawn in the AI's capitals all the time now. It's kind of cool to see them get hit like that considering all the happiness bonuses they usually get. It also frustrates their efforts a lot more than a human players, it seems.

That would work very well. It would also help solve the problem because, once that population gets killed off, you'll stop having as much unhappiness.

I kind of like the idea behind this, I'd just like to point out that every time you kill an insurgent in the real world, you're just as likely to spawn 5 more insurgents from their family and friends as not.

 

[Bostock]

I like how the poor OP was so humiliated by the answers to his question that he never showed up in his own thread again!

 

[VisageTDI]

He does that in all his ??? threads... Silly questions, gets an answer and never bothers replying or thanking.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Yeah, I think they start spawning at -10 now instead of -20.

It can be annoying or fun, depending on the circumstances.

I have to note that since the change, I see rebels spawn in the AI's capitals all the time now. It's kind of cool to see them get hit like that considering all the happiness bonuses they usually get. It also frustrates their efforts a lot more than a human players, it seems.


I kind of like the idea behind this, I'd just like to point out that every time you kill an insurgent in the real world, you're just as likely to spawn 5 more insurgents from their family and friends as not.

Well, sometimes. Other times, you create a desert and call it peace. Roman cruelty did stop uprisings for quite awhile, although it's clear Assyrian cruelty eventually led to their downfall. Modern examples are useful for modern policy, but it's important not to assume the past 50 years reflect the past 6,000 years.

 

[poom3619]

Personally, I would actually hate if "rebellion" are become noted on GP-ish pop-up. It would break my concentration with horribly trivial thing while I am trying to fixing happiness issue.

 

[troublmaker]

Luckily rebels always miss

 

[Jatta Pake]

The only change I'd like to see is the creation of a Great Rebel Leader unit. He could just be a Barbarian version of the Great General giving bonuses to the barb units. Plenty of names available:

Spartacus
Robert E Lee
Guillaume Cale
Walter (Wat) Tyler
Jakob Rohrbach
Yemelyan Pugachev
Stepan Razin
Giuseppe Garibaldi
Pancho Villa
Zhu Yuanzhang
William Wallace
Nat Turner (One of my favorites)
Ali bin Muhammad
Toussaint Louverture
Jean-Jacques Dessalines
Samuel Sharpe
Gaspar Yanga

The list is almost endless...

 

[ToodleElNoodos]

"My liege, these are not terrorists, they are pagan fanatics enraptured by your Autocracy! Commission your compassionate and wise missionaries to gather and nurture them into an iron fist against the accursed Freedom and Order lovers who permeate such vile and insidious deceits about you! May the great Red Face FROWN further upon us!"

-The Heathen Conversion Canticles
Of the Grand Reformed Order of the Pious Oxford University in Paris
(For me? Rebels are free troops)

 

[weregamer]

Oooo! That's almost as good, and much easier, than the Honor exploit.