azzaman333
meh
It very much depends on the situation.
Barbarians
- Thread starter quasarsphere
- Start date
It very much depends on the situation.
Both aspects are useful. Not having to deal with a barbarian storm allows you to do something more useful, and the espionage comes handy for the whole game. I like the "Best defense" quest : +25 Espionage from the great wall. Build Scotland Yard and that's +50.
Bradlius
Warlord
I've always found the barb cities to be at least as intelligently located as the AI cities -- usually with one or two resources within BFC. But yeah, like the AI, they don't seem to hesitate to build one tile from the coast, and they don't seem to build defensively, except by coincidence, like when the hill tile is equally situated between two resources.
I wonder what the exact algorithm is -- if a barb archer wanders around and finds a good city-spot, does it just turn settler?
Pariah
Outside Influence
I don't think barbarians have settlers - I certainly never saw one! Their cities just appear from nothing, on any tile which is unobserved by any human or AI unit for a few turns. (Although in BTS, it seems the barbarian cities don't appear on a vacant landmass until it has been visited by a civilized unit).
Gooblah
Heh...
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2007
- Messages
- 4,282
A few methods for dealing with Barbarian Units (and misc. info; #4 is based on my own work and that of KMadCandy's a while back)
1) Fogbusting: Barbarians spawn in the 'fog of war', the hazy graying of terrain outside your city's Line of Sight. Thus, the less fog there is, the less spawn. This applies to AI Civilizations as well; wherever a Civilization can see, Barbarians cannot spawn. To help eliminate Fog of War, build a few Archers and give them Guerrilla I (Axes and Chariots work as well, but don't get hill defense promotions; give them Combat I, then Cover or Shock). Plant them on a hill at the edge/in the middle of flat terrain, and watch as the barbarians head for them. Now, if the Barbarians ignore them, have a few Mounted Units ready to defend.
2) Sizable Army: Keep Units on your necessary resources in the 'frontier', the area where your borders meet no-man's land. Plant Archers or Axemen on Metals (Iron, Copper, Gold, Gems, Silver), Food (Wheat, Rice, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Corn) or other military resources (Horses, Ivory) whenever necessary. Inevitably, upkeep costs will go up, so if there is a resource within one-turn reach from a city, keep an Axeman on Sentry mode within the city. When the Barbarian comes within a one-tile radius of the resource, you can attack.
3) The Great Wall: As someone earlier pointed out, never, ever build this just for the Barbarian threat. Build it instead for the extra Great General and Great Spy points. However, it remains an excellent deterrent to the Barbarian. Its powers extend throughout your culture, not just the area hemmed in by the Wall graphics.
4) Barbarian Civilization: Barbarians cannot build most Wonders (The Great Lighthouse, The Colossus, and a few others IIRC are exceptions), and some buildings, one of which is the Palace. Their cities spawn the same way as their Units. The Civilization controls all Barbarian Animals, Units, and Cities around the globe. When more than 2/3 of the AI/Human Civilizations on a map know a certain tech, the Barbarian will gain that knowledge. However, their straight research and production times are very long compared to those of a normal Civilization. They can use Workers and build Units/Buildings similar to that of an AI.
1) Fogbusting: Barbarians spawn in the 'fog of war', the hazy graying of terrain outside your city's Line of Sight. Thus, the less fog there is, the less spawn. This applies to AI Civilizations as well; wherever a Civilization can see, Barbarians cannot spawn. To help eliminate Fog of War, build a few Archers and give them Guerrilla I (Axes and Chariots work as well, but don't get hill defense promotions; give them Combat I, then Cover or Shock). Plant them on a hill at the edge/in the middle of flat terrain, and watch as the barbarians head for them. Now, if the Barbarians ignore them, have a few Mounted Units ready to defend.
2) Sizable Army: Keep Units on your necessary resources in the 'frontier', the area where your borders meet no-man's land. Plant Archers or Axemen on Metals (Iron, Copper, Gold, Gems, Silver), Food (Wheat, Rice, Sheep, Pigs, Cows, Corn) or other military resources (Horses, Ivory) whenever necessary. Inevitably, upkeep costs will go up, so if there is a resource within one-turn reach from a city, keep an Axeman on Sentry mode within the city. When the Barbarian comes within a one-tile radius of the resource, you can attack.
3) The Great Wall: As someone earlier pointed out, never, ever build this just for the Barbarian threat. Build it instead for the extra Great General and Great Spy points. However, it remains an excellent deterrent to the Barbarian. Its powers extend throughout your culture, not just the area hemmed in by the Wall graphics.
4) Barbarian Civilization: Barbarians cannot build most Wonders (The Great Lighthouse, The Colossus, and a few others IIRC are exceptions), and some buildings, one of which is the Palace. Their cities spawn the same way as their Units. The Civilization controls all Barbarian Animals, Units, and Cities around the globe. When more than 2/3 of the AI/Human Civilizations on a map know a certain tech, the Barbarian will gain that knowledge. However, their straight research and production times are very long compared to those of a normal Civilization. They can use Workers and build Units/Buildings similar to that of an AI.
Crowqueen
Token forum woman
I am two-thirds of the way thru a Terra game now and the barbarians are the perfect inhabitants for the new world--a tough, but technologically backward, adversary
And the Great Wall is no help because you build it on, so to speak, the "mainland" and it gives no bonuses in the New World.
Not sure if this is the case. I think I've seen barbarian cities on islands with goodie huts, and if the AI has been to that island the goodie hut is as likely to disappear as much as it is when the human player arrives. And also the Terra maps are settled by the time you reach Optics/Astronomy and are able to visit them.
Pariah
Outside Influence
Crowqueen said:
That was certainly true in Vanilla Civ4: but when I started playing Terra maps in BTS, I was surprised and disappointed by how empty the New World was. I even got into the habit of opening WorldBuilder and seeding Barbarian cities on the empty continent early in the game, so that they would have matured by the time I discovered Optics.
Crowqueen
Token forum woman
Nice idea; I'll keep it in mind when I next play.
I had a very short transition from Vanilla to BtS via Warlords, so I can't remember whether I played Terra on V or BtS first but thinking about it, you are right. I think I may have played it first on Vanilla so there were cities there, but equally I think the barbarians are there first or, if not first then ASAP after you.
Danny_Archer
Chieftain
As annoying as the barbarians may be, I never turn them off. Having them there is a nice touch plus they also do some damage to the AI players as well. Generally, fog busting is the best method but I've noticed that letting them confront you may have it's benefits since it strengthens your units and helps them gain experience before you actually engage with any real AI later on in the game.
I've just tried another game with the Barbs switched on but they completely take over the game. Here is what I did to start off.
First off no real problems, started my Capital built , worker, settler, settler, then warrior. Connected second City and did the same there. Connected a third and by this time I had Bronze Working and Masonry, Agriculture. Went for Archery next so I could try the fogbusting suggested here. My original warrior was off map searching, getting rid of the black stuff and searching for villages. I built a scout so I could do this properly.
Then the barbs started coming. I built a good few archers and sent them off to the surrounds of my land and fortified them on hills. Then I started building more cities always taking archers with my settlers to protect them. So now I had about 7 or 8 cities and I thought that was enough for now. My workers were building farms , pastures etc etc. But the barbs kept appearing constantly and where my game is now I simply can't do anything at all except fight them off. All my efforts are bent on keeping them off, replacing the archers they kill and they are killing a good few. They are killing my workers and destroying improvements at an alarming rate. When I saved and quit last night 5 of my 8 cities were surrounded by barbs. I tried the fogbusting plan but while it did enable me to get a start and build more cities now I am under constant attack and as a result I am way behind the other AI's on research.
I am playing with a Custom Map, normal barbs, only reason I went for custom is that I wanted to specify 4 continents because one of the parts of the game I love is sea warfare. I like having to send armies across the oceans and using submarines etc
Neil
First off no real problems, started my Capital built , worker, settler, settler, then warrior. Connected second City and did the same there. Connected a third and by this time I had Bronze Working and Masonry, Agriculture. Went for Archery next so I could try the fogbusting suggested here. My original warrior was off map searching, getting rid of the black stuff and searching for villages. I built a scout so I could do this properly.
Then the barbs started coming. I built a good few archers and sent them off to the surrounds of my land and fortified them on hills. Then I started building more cities always taking archers with my settlers to protect them. So now I had about 7 or 8 cities and I thought that was enough for now. My workers were building farms , pastures etc etc. But the barbs kept appearing constantly and where my game is now I simply can't do anything at all except fight them off. All my efforts are bent on keeping them off, replacing the archers they kill and they are killing a good few. They are killing my workers and destroying improvements at an alarming rate. When I saved and quit last night 5 of my 8 cities were surrounded by barbs. I tried the fogbusting plan but while it did enable me to get a start and build more cities now I am under constant attack and as a result I am way behind the other AI's on research.
I am playing with a Custom Map, normal barbs, only reason I went for custom is that I wanted to specify 4 continents because one of the parts of the game I love is sea warfare. I like having to send armies across the oceans and using submarines etc
Neil
azzaman333
meh
worker settler settler was your problem.
i like playing with raging barbs on the higher difficulties because it ultimately makes my life easier by softening up the AI's so i usually end up building it -almost- exclusively for the anti-barb trait but the great spy is nice to settle so i get to see/investigate their cities at ~2-300 AD
ZeroM
Warlord
Yep. I start building a warrior first, and send the default on out scouting. Hopefully I get lucky and he hits 2 or 3 huts and maybe gets me a worker or a settler. I send the second warrior out as well so the 2 are in ever widening circles clearing out the black. The capital pops, I make a third warrior, then a worker, then a settler. I recall one recon warrior as I've by then cut a pretty big area out of the blackness and he becomes the escort for the next settler. I'm still playing on Warlord, so this may not be a good idea on higher levels.
Crowqueen
Token forum woman
I've just started playing on Warlord, if you are happy with it then stick to it or go down a level and practice the opening game on Chieftain before moving up. I only moved up with a lot of protest to Warlord after finding I had a workable aggressive strategy that ended in frequent conquest or domination victories rather than the "meh" ending where you get Diplomatic Victory with the AP. I fought WL to a standstill last night (Domination victory in 1760-odd) but still I had to use Darius (Financial/Organised) to do it and when I did it with Ragnar I got my rear end served to me on a plate because of that horrid Herbal Remedies event where you can only get out of it without centuries of discontent due to using your cities as guinea-pig farms.
The way I see it you need to be a bit more strategic. Barbarians - human ones that will come inside your territory, as opposed to animal ones that won't - don't tend to appear until 2000 BC. By this time you could/should have a thriving mini-empire perhaps with a number of cities or at least some well-developed ones. I normally rush for Stonehenge and the Great Wall first, and normally have the GW built by the time they start appearing, so that is your best bet (even if it is only around one city you still get the bonus for the whole continent or island although that said it is fundmentally useless on an archipelago map).
I would build the wall in your second or third city and use your other one to build warriors or archers or settlers. I don't think warrior, settler, settler is a bad tactic, it just depends on how quickly you can get them out. The GW should be a priority as soon as reasonably possible, even bypassing Stonehenge (play a Creative Leader and you essentially get the same bonus though I assume SH stacks with the bonus to culture in your cities).
But my black had gone, I had cleared all the black on my continent with a few archers out fortified on hills and the barbs just kept coming and coming and coming! Nothing stopped them!
Hammurbabble
Warlord
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2008
- Messages
- 239
Are you playing BtS? If so, then that barbarian rush where they just keep coming and you can't defend any of your tile improvements unless that's all you do, is temporary. It lasts for a number of turns and then stops. Afterwards, you may still see barbs from time to time, but the flood will stop.
You're fine, actually. Just give it a few more turns.
You're fine, actually. Just give it a few more turns.
No I haven't got the expansion packs yet, just the original patched version and my last game the problem went on from (approx) 1700BC, pretty much when I got to my third city, and was still going on at 300AD. They just never seem to stop! I'm obviously doing something wrong as you guys aren't having too many problems and can win on much higher levels.
They were taking cities as they were defended well, but they were constantly killing workers, and destroying improvements, seemed to appear from anywhere, I had no black left on my continent. They did focus on my archers on the edges of my zones in the main but a good few still appeared inside my zone.
Just tried another game with them turned off at Warlord and won easily, I'd love to be able to win with them on!
They were taking cities as they were defended well, but they were constantly killing workers, and destroying improvements, seemed to appear from anywhere, I had no black left on my continent. They did focus on my archers on the edges of my zones in the main but a good few still appeared inside my zone.
Just tried another game with them turned off at Warlord and won easily, I'd love to be able to win with them on!
Pariah
Outside Influence
You may have explored your whole continent, but as long as there's land not currently under observation (greyed over) barbarians can still spawn there.
They should never spawn within your cultural borders, however. The game's coding doesn't allow it. Perhaps they're appearing just outside, in the edge of the grey fog, and moving in before you notice them.
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