Barbarians

[jadelicia]

I just have a few questions about Barbarians:

1) Can they build their own cities?
2) I've seen barbarians suddenly disappear, never to be seen again...how is this possible?
3) Do barbarians keep knowledge of the map as they discover it? Or do they have to rediscover it each time they appear in their groups?
4) Where does money and science that is produced in a barbarian city go?

Well, that's a schwack of questions ...hopefully you can answer some of them for me.

 

[SVAndrei]

1) As far as i know, barbarians don't build cities. They try to conquer enemy ones.

2) Dunno.

3) I think they keep knowledge of the map.

4) I've seen cases where barbarians upgraded their units.

 

[jadelicia]

Yah...I've seen barbarian finatics

 

[SVAndrei]

What is that suppose to mean?

 

[funxus]

The barbarians don't build cities, but if they capture one, the science will go towards the next tech (yes, barbs can develop techs) and I assume the money is just piled up.

I assume barbs have full knowledge of the map at all times, just like the rest of the AIs, but if you switch to the barb map in cheat mode, you'll see where they've been because they're "official" knowledge of the map is kept and is for all barbs.

There are certain techs that will automatically upgrade all new barbs. See NetHog's tech-paper for that.

I think that there can max be a certain amount of "barb parties" at the same time. And that these parties only exist for a set amount of time, which is why they disappear after a while. A "barb party" I suspect is a group of barbs that spawn at the same location at the same time.

 

[Old n Slow]

There's a Bunch of Barb information elsewhere (I forget the links -- ElephantU has them).

Funxus addressed a couple of the questions, but for all practical purposes, money & technolgy "rules" don't apply with barbs. Land barbs, sea barbs, hut barbs, and those that spawn from cities all have separate production rates/variables (details in the Barbarian papers) and will be a product of their times (more modern units will appear as the world learns new technologies.)

And yes, after the barbarians capture a city, you can set up an embassy with them. .

One of the fun things for me is to have a significant tech lead on the world (thus affecting the barbarian unit mix) and watch the more advanced barbarian hordes (such as dragoons) advance on more primative ai civs.

 

[M37]

Babarian dragoons? Funny don't rember that but I remember once beating a city down and not having a unit to take the city. the nearby barbarian took the city!

 

[Colincivmaster]

I dont find it bad when barbs take over cities, because you can incite revolts for very cheap. Less then 50 gold sometimes.

 

[funxus]

Originally posted by Colincivmaster
I dont find it bad when barbs take over cities, because you can incite revolts for very cheap. Less then 50 gold sometimes.

Or bribe all the units that come out of it for cheap. Since the barb city is closer than your cities, the bribed units will be NONE and won't need support.

 

[jadelicia]

Is it a Barb/AI cheat that they know the entire map? If so, how do you know that they know the whole map?

 

[Ace]

There are some threads here where people have "tested" that point. And the conclusion was that it did "know" the whole map. One of the key points was that ai units far beyond range immediately started moving toward your units when you appear on the ai's continents. Try it in cheat mode. after several turns, take over each of the ai civs and check its unit movements. You will also notice that even thru the map has not "been explored" by the ai and is still black, its units are heading straight for yours.

 

[Mercator]

Originally posted by jadelicia
2) I've seen barbarians suddenly disappear, never to be seen again...how is this possible?

That's simply what barbarians do. They disappear after a little while. Probably to prevent them from roaming around the map forever, or fortifying somewhere.

3) Do barbarians keep knowledge of the map as they discover it? Or do they have to rediscover it each time they appear in their groups?

If you turn on cheat mode, you can choose to reveal the barbarian map. Their map will look very fragmented from discovering all the little areas around the map where they have spawned.
Furthermore, I think their map is always up-to-date. That is, when you discover part of the map you will only see what it looks like at the moment you discovered it. If an AI units walks through it later on, you don't see that. I think the barbarians do...
But, that doesn't make a whole lot of difference, because I think all of your computer opponents know the entire map anyway, like Ace said.

4) Where does money and science that is produced in a barbarian city go?

I'm pretty sure that barbarians can NOT develop techs. Well, they can, but right when they discovered something, they forget it again. Barbarians don't upgrade because of disoveries they've made, but because of discoveries you've made. For instance, after you've discovered Gunpowder, barbarian Musketeers will pop up rather than Legions.

There's a detailed guide about what effects the map size, difficulty levels, barbarian levels and technologies have on barbarians (in case you wanna get technical):
http://coc.apolyton.net/guides/barbarian_paper.shtml

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by Mercator
That's simply what barbarians do. They disappear after a little while. Probably to prevent them from roaming around the map forever, or fortifying somewhere.
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I'd say the rationale for this is so they do not "occupy" unit slots that might otherwise be used by players. Of course, this really is not a problem unless you're Barb Wrath.

 

[jadelicia]

What do you mean when you say "occupy unit slots"? What are "unit slots"? Are they just squares of terrain? Also, I almost wish they wouldn't dissapear. It would be more fun with more barbarians. I put the barbarians on the "Raging Hordes" level, but they're still not very challenging. Perhaps this is because I play on Warlord level of difficulty?

 

[funxus]

There's a max number of units that the game can have totally, including yours, the AIs' and the barb's. IIRC it's somewhere around 2000, but am not sure. On the higher barb levels, and in late game, they can spawn in huge numbers, and if they stayed, they would soon fill up the max number of units in the game, and I think the result is that you wouldn't be able to produce any new ones.

 

[ElephantU]

Barbs that come from huts and pirate ships will eventually disappear if they cannot find something to attack. Barbs created by Barb cities never disappear as long as the Barb city still stands. Barbs are dumb, though, and often fix on a single target when they land or spawn. Higher levels of difficulty just increase the number of units that spawn from huts or uprisings, not their intelligence.

 

[Andu Indorin]

Originally posted by funxus
On the higher barb levels, and in late game, they can spawn in huge numbers, and if they stayed, they would soon fill up the max number of units in the game, and I think the result is that you wouldn't be able to produce any new ones.

For example, in the attached game, there's something like 240 barbs occupying the attention of the Mongols. ...

(It's a pity I never finished this game ... )

 

[jadelicia]

I checked out the game you attached. How on earth did that many barbarians come to be? That's crazy!

 

[Stegyre]

Andu is probably playing at a level that has come to be called "Barbarian Wrath." You get this by modifying the Rules.txt (I think that's the right file) to add an additional level of barbarian activity beyond "Raging Hordes." This makes barbarian leaders worth 200 gp and leads to uprisings that have several dozen units in them.

 

[jadelicia]

Sounds good...does this modification have any side effects? (I might make it!) Also, how, exactly, do you make this modification?