Barbarossa: The War in the East 1941-1945

[Rocoteh]

great scenario, but the first turn takes long waiting

and i been kicked out by the game if i klik on info about the aa mobile ... something. the game exits after that and i can start al over again

but i think what i have seen is kewl !!!! good job

ed1977,

Thank you.

On the first turn:

How much RAM does your computer have?

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I agree about the difference in the losses model between reality and Civ3. However... In 1941 it is _really_ was the case - the whole divisions and even Corps and Armies are just disapeared by complete ellimination as fighting units. For Soviet Union in couple of month of 1941 losses came to 8.6 million people overall, between them 3.6 killed! Think about it - it is about 360 divisions just killed! more then 1.2 million people became PoW. It is 120 divisions more! So it will be very reallistic for 1941-1942. Another thing - Tank divisions in reality are usual fighting infantry. Civ3 model is good in this case - Tanks can retreat. After having some losses, sure. Therefore I see no real problem with realism as far as we are concerning 1941-1942 from Axis point of view. The same Could be said about Soviet attacks 1944 - Bagration operation. Actually the whole group of armies "Center" was completely destroyed, captured more then 80000 PoW. So my vote is drastically reduce the production of units, especially Tank units. Even in man-to-man game it will be OK, since each side could understand that those divisions are _very_ high priced and they will save them.

Albert Einstain,

OK, when I find time I will make an new analyse of the current production
system to see if there should be changes.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Yes, but that would make for a boring game. I like the idea of massive tank battles following massive air and artillery bombardments.

There's a difference between realism and game play. I think if all scenarios were focused on making it as realistic as possible and the outcome was always predictable because of how closely it mirrored history, then they wouldn't be any fun to play.


Ricoteh, I like some of the other ideas about stronger defenses in and near Leningrad, Moscow, and Stalingrad. Maybe it could be done with a super garrison unit. (Immobile, very high defense (~50?), lots of hit points, and even good AA ability, maybe even some bombardment ability). That could interesting

saulosi,

On the super garrison unit:

Yes, it could work for Leningrad and Moscow.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

Rocoteh,

thinking little bit more about the losses model. We have it in Civ3 actually. That is bombing/fatal bombing. Any unit with bombing ability could fire number of times according to its fire rate .If you will add fatal bombing - it could even kill. So we do have solution for loss modeling. What we need to do is to ask Firaxis to add possibility for mod author to apply the same schema for the regular attacks.
Another possible solution is somehow give to any unit possibility to retreat, even from more mobile unit. It could make things both more interesting and realistic

Albert Einstain,

Notes have been taken.

However one should have in mind that Firaxis never communicate
with Civ-players. The exception to this rule have been some special
meetings.
With the release of Civ 4 in November, I also doubt they will invest
one more single dollar in Civ 3.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I didn't know that Soviets are so weak. Till the point I captured Stalingrad I was under impression that I could be unpleasantly supprised, like Germans was in 1943. But that didn't happend. That as the reason that I played Gen Maj, and not more challenging levels. In regular games my level is Emperor, so I understand that that Gen Maj should be like it.
Balance is good thing. But this scenario lacks strategic balance, while has the tactical balance. The greatest German problem in reality was lack of fuel and reinfrocements. This was the main strategic reason of their collapse. In this scenario I had plenty of reinforcements and fuel was not in question. Therefore no reason whatsoever to lose. But I guessed that to late...

Albert Einstain,

The Civ 3 game-engine sets sharp limits for what you can simulate in
the scenario.

Thus you can not simulate weather, command and control or supply.

I recommend you to buy the Operational Art of Warfare if you
think Barbarossa is inaccurate.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

It has been my experience with most games of this scale (around divisional in level) that as the Soviet, you need to immediately move a pile of units from your areas in the south to the north, especially around Leningrad or face losing them. While this may appear to leave the southern area weak, the Soviets produce far more units there than elsewhere and new production will hopefully arrive in time to save the day. This pretty much true for this scenario and also for a board game called Fire in the East-Scorched Earth (Part of the Europa series if you have ever heard of it). On top of that, it only makes sense as well. Most of the pop centers are in the south.

If you get units moving right away, I think you will see a difference.

Klyden,

Its now many years since I played Fire in the East-Scorched Earth,
but I remember I thought the basic problem was to high losses on both sides.

War in the East (S.P.I.) was much better in this aspect, although a rather
"dull" game-system.

Rocoteh

 

[Rocoteh]

I downloaded this scenario, and the first word that came to mind was "epic"!!

The unit and tech graphics are amazing, and I was very pleased by the fast loading time, especially since there are so many units and cities!

I chose the Soviets, at an easy difficulty for the first play, but was trashed by Germany!

Maybe you made the Germans too strong... I haven't been following this thread, so I don't know what other people think (I'm quite new to civ, so don't be too worried if I garble on! ), but I would weaken the Germans a bit.

裁神英外,

Thank you. I am very glad to hear that.

When I look back at the scenarios I have been involved in (The ACW scenario, The Old Empires, The Great War, Barbarossa and WW2-Global)
I must regard Barbarossa as ill-fated.

That is: Since its release there have been a constant flow of critique
that I think is unfair.
Unfair since I and Sarevok can only change the scenario within the limits
of the editor. We can not create our own version of Civ 3.
Note though, that the majority of critique and comments have been OK.

On strategy and tactics for Germany: You can find many high-quality
analyses and advise in this thread.

Rocoteh

 

[ComradeDavo]

ComradeDavo,

Yes, I think this is very good ideas that should be implemented
in the next version of Barbarossa.

Rocoteh

Thanks

Other than that, I think the scenario works very well

 

[Serutan]

I chose the Soviets, at an easy difficulty for the first play, but was trashed by Germany!

Maybe you made the Germans too strong... I haven't been following this thread, so I don't know what other people think (I'm quite new to civ, so don't be too worried if I garble on! ), but I would weaken the Germans a bit.

IMO the Germans are'nt too strong. You have to play a
defensive strategy (actually, similar to what really happened) at first, and
conserve the few strong units you start out with. Once you get tank corps
and Great Patriotic War, then you can think about attacking. Also,
artillery is key. Lots of it.

 

[ed1977]

ed1977,

Thank you.

On the first turn:

How much RAM does your computer have?

Rocoteh

496 mb so that shoudn't be a problem i guess.

 

[Rocoteh]

496 mb so that shoudn't be a problem i guess.

ed1977,

That is correct.

Right now I can not say what the reason is.

What I can remember such a problem have not been reported earlier
with Barbarossa.

Rocoteh

 

[ed1977]

ed1977,

That is correct.

Right now I can not say what the reason is.

What I can remember such a problem have not been reported earlier
with Barbarossa.

Rocoteh

but it works fine aslong as i don't want info about that aa mobile thing the rest of the info works just fine. But thanx anyway that you thought about it.

 

[ComradeDavo]

Hey - Just wondering if there are any Europeans who'd like to play a PBEM game of version 1.3 against me. I say europeans cuz that way we are in same/similar time zones so could play several turns a day if they have time
Don't mind which side I have, PM me if ya intrested!

Also for anyone playing as Soviet in a PBEM game, take special care to work exactly how you wan to research your tech tree........something I should have done in the game I am playing

 

[Rocoteh]

but it works fine aslong as i don't want info about that aa mobile thing the rest of the info works just fine. But thanx anyway that you thought about it.

ed1977,

OK, I see.

Then its related to a bug in the civilopedia.

Rocoteh

 

[Albert Einstain]

Albert Einstain,

The Civ 3 game-engine sets sharp limits for what you can simulate in
the scenario.

Thus you can not simulate weather, command and control or supply.

I recommend you to buy the Operational Art of Warfare if you
think Barbarossa is inaccurate.

Rocoteh

I _know_ that. And I had fun playing _this_ scenario. Just trying to add my 2 cents, maybe it could be useful for further improvement. I _know_ the limitation of Civ3. And I know that Firaxis does not communicate with the gamers. While they _are_ reading our suggestions. As far as I understand Civ4 has supply model better then civ3...

 

[Rocoteh]

I _know_ that. And I had fun playing _this_ scenario. Just trying to add my 2 cents, maybe it could be useful for further improvement. I _know_ the limitation of Civ3. And I know that Firaxis does not communicate with the gamers. While they _are_ reading our suggestions. As far as I understand Civ4 has supply model better then civ3...

Albert Einstain,

OK I see.
Yes, it will be very interesting to see what Civ 4 can offer with
regard scenario-creation.
Welcome back with more comments.

Rocoteh

 

[Ieyasu]

Some notes:
Perm - Molotov
Ustinov (lol) - Izhevsk
Orenberg - Orenburg
Stavropol - Voroshilovsk
Rostov - Rostov-on-Don

 

[Rocoteh]

Some notes:
Perm - Molotov
Ustinov (lol) - Izhevsk
Orenberg - Orenburg
Stavropol - Voroshilovsk
Rostov - Rostov-on-Don

Ieyasu,

O.K.
Notes have been taken.

Thank you.

Rocoteh

 

[saulosi]

I was thinking it would be fun if some people would be interested in a PBEM tournament using Version 1.3.

Send me a Private Message if you're interested and what side you would prefer. If I get enough interest, we'll need to decide on some gentleman agreement type rules, and I'll setup a tree of who plays who (trying to give you your first pick of sides). Maybe we could use an honor system to rate ourselves in our ability in the game and I can try to match up people with similar ratings (I don't know, just a thought).

Is there any interest? If so send me a PM

 

[ComradeDavo]

Sounds like a good idea, I have PM'ed you!

The rules would be as follows....

1. No razing cities
2. NO RAZING CITIES



Now we need some recruits

Also if anyone is unaware the Soviet player can not move for first 2 turns of scenario....perhaps to counteract this the German player should not move for their first 2 turns either? Anyone who plays PBEM have an opinion on this?