[R&F] Based on the new features - which civilizations and leaders should be introduced in R&F?

[blackcatatonic]

I'm honestly getting a bit worried that my favorite civ won't make it for this first expansion: the Celts have always been included in the first xpac but assuming Inca and Ottoman are in, and with no African civ having been revealed so far, that doesn't leave much room for more "European" Civs...

With only one European Civ on the list so far, I'd be astonished if out of 8 Civs there isn't at least one more. I'm sticking with my earlier prediction of Georgia, Italy, Inca and Ottomans, so that would be another two representatives for Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if there are no African Civs at all in this expansion (though I wouldn't totally rule out Carthage taking Italy's spot).

Sadly I don't see room for the Celts this time around although I'd love a Celtic Civ of some kind. I'm confident they'll be added at some point. They'll want to hold back some big guns for Expansion 2.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm honestly getting a bit worried that my favorite civ won't make it for this first expansion: the Celts have always been included in the first xpac but assuming Inca and Ottoman are in, and with no African civ having been revealed so far, that doesn't leave much room for more "European" Civs...

The Celts are a horrid mess. Firaxis butchers them every time. I would prefer if they do away with "the Celts" as a pan-Celtic umbrella civ and focus on a single classical Celtic culture like Gauls or a Medieval Celtic state like Ireland, Scotland, Wales or Brittany.

 

[Siptah]

The forest spot that the celts had in civ V might be taken by the Cree for now.

 

[blackcatatonic]

The Celts are a horrid mess. Firaxis butchers them every time. I would prefer if they do away with "the Celts" as a pan-Celtic umbrella civ and focus on a single classical Celtic culture like Gauls or a Medieval Celtic state like Ireland, Scotland, Wales or Brittany.

One of my wishlist Civs is Scotland. I'll be so happy if it finally happens!

Firaxis seem to like the idea of an amorphous pan-Celtic Civ as it's what they've always done, though it's been slightly different every time so they obviously can't quite decide how best to represent them. The Civ V incarnation was one of my favourites ever in gameplay terms but having Iceni Boudicca speaking Welsh with Edinburgh as her capital was weird on so many levels.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

The forest spot that the celts had in civ V might be taken by the Cree for now.

Both the Celts and the Iroquois had forest bonuses. If the Cree do this time, I suspect it will be closer to the Iroquois than the Celts.

 

[dnoisette]

[...] or a Medieval Celtic state like Ireland, Scotland, Wales or Brittany.

Sign me up for this! I don't see it happening anytime soon though, hence my wish for the Celts to return (I do admit they are a mess but I still would love for them to be included, hopefully in a more sensible fashion this time around).

 

[liv]

I'm honestly getting a bit worried that my favorite civ won't make it for this first expansion: the Celts have always been included in the first xpac but assuming Inca and Ottoman are in, and with no African civ having been revealed so far, that doesn't leave much room for more "European" Civs...

I think there will be one more European. Celts may be in competitions with Georgians. Celts should win

 

[steveg700]

Love the avatar--adore, even--but we've already seen this ability, or something pretty closely resembling it. Was hoping for something that would tie in to the civ ability more strongly than just another all-purpose warmonger trait.

 

[Zaarin]

I don't think we are going to get a religious civ unless it incorporates or supplements its religiosity with new game mechanics. This could be Georgia.

I'm hoping Cree use the new alliance system, and Ottomans are the culture civ. The domination-focused Ottomans of Civ V were a bit of a drag. I also hope the Inca use Governors but in a different way than Korea.

If the Cree are led by Poundmaker, he was famous for his alliance with the Blackfoot, by whom he was fostered.

I'm honestly getting a bit worried that my favorite civ won't make it for this first expansion: the Celts have always been included in the first xpac but assuming Inca and Ottoman are in, and with no African civ having been revealed so far, that doesn't leave much room for more "European" Civs...

Good riddance. I want a Celtic civ, but Lugus save us from another abominable amalgamation civ like we got in Civ5.

I think there will be one more European. Celts may be in competitions with Georgians. Celts should win

The Georgians are very debatably European; one could just as easily call them Central Asian.

 

[steveg700]

The Celts are a horrid mess. Firaxis butchers them every time. I would prefer if they do away with "the Celts" as a pan-Celtic umbrella civ and focus on a single classical Celtic culture like Gauls or a Medieval Celtic state like Ireland, Scotland, Wales or Brittany.

Always seemed weird to portray pantheists as a religious civ. Then again, no less weird than having nomads settle cities and build districts.

Was hoping for Vietnam, and they'd be a suitable foresty/junglish civ.

 

[blackcatatonic]

I think there will be one more European. Celts may be in competitions with Georgians. Celts should win

To be honest I'm pretty sold on Georgia appearing in this expansion. Great leader option, known for a golden age involving said leader, a Civ we've not seen before, historical interaction with the Mongols who are definitely being added, and that's before you even get to the trailer hints.

I've been wrong before, though

 

[Siptah]

Both the Celts and the Iroquois had forest bonuses. If the Cree do this time, I suspect it will be closer to the Iroquois than the Celts.

Yes, sure. But I doubt we would have two in the same expansion. And a forest bonus would make sense for the two. And we have no forest bonus civs right now since another obvious choice (Germany) always gets other abilities.

 

[Vahnstad]

Italy could very well be the culture civ. Ottomans are most likely a combination of domination, commerce and culture. Inca's is going to be infrastructure (production / food / housing bonuses and domination, though they definitely won't be all about domination. They're going to be the Germany of the Mountains). If Canada makes it into the game, they're probably going to be focused on culture as well.

I prefer a classical Celtic civ (i thought you guys were complaining about Eurocentrism?), like the Gauls.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Speaking of Celts, Boudicca is a confirmed Great General still. Assuming they are still going with the Pan-Celtic umbrella monster, who would lead it? In the past they have also used Brennus, who may or may not be a real person, and Cunobeline, a classical Brythonic king.

 

[Siptah]

Speaking of Celts, Boudicca is a confirmed Great General still. Assuming they are still going with the Pan-Celtic umbrella monster, who would lead it? In the past they have also used Brennus, who may or may not be a real person, and Cunobeline, a classical Brythonic king.

Vercingetorix is iconic enough and the historical person can easily hide behind the legends. I prefer a Gaul civ anyway. I think one of the Brennus was a real person for sure.

 

[evanaurora]

People were pretty convinced of the idea of Canada a couple weeks ago, too.

I think Georgia would be a great pick but they're not even close to a sure thing at this point.

So, five civs left, one of which is the Cree; no Middle Eastern, South American or African civs at this point.

Inca and the Ottomans seem safe bets as of the info we have now, which takes the Middle East and South American slots. That leaves two; one of which I hope is African, but a Sub-Saharan civ is never a guarantee, unfortunately. So either one or two slots that could be anything-- yes, maybe even Georgia, filling quite a lot of unchecked boxes and being a genuine surprise. But at the same time they could go with a second true European civ (Civ loves their European civs), a badly needed second North American civ, or something genuinely surprising (maybe an ancient ~cradle of civilization civ?).

Edit: Off topic, but Gallic names invariably make me think of Asterix and Obelix, lol.

 

[Zaarin]

Yes, sure. But I doubt we would have two in the same expansion. And a forest bonus would make sense for the two. And we have no forest bonus civs right now since another obvious choice (Germany) always gets other abilities.

IMO forest-based abilities make no sense for the Iroquois, who were agriculturalists who clear cut the forests to build their cities and farms.

Speaking of Celts, Boudicca is a confirmed Great General still. Assuming they are still going with the Pan-Celtic umbrella monster, who would lead it? In the past they have also used Brennus, who may or may not be a real person, and Cunobeline, a classical Brythonic king.

Cartimandua, Vercingetorix, and Ambiorix would be some of the more obvious choices for the umbrella monster, or if they really wanted to an out-of-left-field choice, there's Viriathus. He was Lusitanian, which means he may or may not have been Celtic, but when has Firaxis ever let facts get in the way? (Viriathus would make a fascinating leader, I just don't know what civ to attach him to as a Lusitanian. I certainly don't want a Lusitanian civ.)

Vercingetorix is iconic enough and the historical person can easily hide behind the legends. I prefer a Gaul civ anyway. I think one of the Brennus was a real person for sure.

They both sound like Graeco-Roman propaganda to me. Neither sacking is attested by the archaeological record.

 

[Siptah]

IMO forest-based abilities make no sense for the Iroquois, who were agriculturalists who clear cut the forests to build their cities and farms.

The two = celts and cree

 

[Gabhar]

They listened to people complaining about Gandhi so I hope they avoid the Celtic blob again. It makes the most sense to me that a "Celts" civ would be primarily Gaulish whereas medieval or modern Celtic cultures should be represented by a particular nation. The way V did it was really bad.

 

[dnoisette]

To be honest I'm pretty sold on Georgia appearing in this expansion. Great leader option, known for a golden age involving said leader, a Civ we've not seen before, historical interaction with the Mongols who are definitely being added, and that's before you even get to the trailer hints.

To be honest, when I first read about the Georgian hints in the trailer, I thought: "Well, they're just messing around with those of us who peered endlessly at Gorgo's blurry picture last year".
Not once did it cross my mind that they would actually add Georgia as a civ. I just saw these hints as an inside joke for civ fanatics (here and beyond), not evidence that Georgia was being added.