[R&F] Based on the new features - which civilizations and leaders should be introduced in R&F?

[Eagle Pursuit]

Eagle... I know you know people who know people...

Could you PLEASE get Firaxis to give us a solid idea of the future of DLC packs after the xpac?

I haven't heard anything yet.

 

[DeepKing]

I am hoping for civs with other aspects to them than warmongering. I do not care what they are called or what they wear to be honest. Who could that be?
Ottomans as traders maybe?

Carthage did have that nifty insta-harbor ability in the last game.

 

[liv]

That ability is not needed. But harbours could be given a speciality district a cothon to give extra gold and culture maybe

Carthage did have that nifty insta-harbor ability in the last game.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

That ability is not needed. But harbours could be given a speciality district a cothon to give extra gold and culture maybe

I was thinking Cothon could replace the Shipyard but come at the same time as harbor and lighthouse.

 

[DeepKing]

I was thinking Cothon could replace the Shipyard but come at the same time as harbor and lighthouse.

That plus a unique naval unit would be devastating.

 

[liv]

I was thinking Cothon could replace the Shipyard but come at the same time as harbor and lighthouse.

That would work too. Or they could add a traderoute or give automatic promotion to boats build there (that would be strong I think)
Could Dido have an ages ability?

 

[The Kingmaker]

I think Carthage could easily have some kind of pentekonter or quinquireme as its UU...

...but I still would really like Hannibal to return with his war elephants.

His ability should be multifaceted like Roosevelt's, with both a bonus and an extra UU. Hannibal should get a war elephant as his special leader UU plus maybe a mercenary general ability to let him recruit random infantry from among those he fights or encounters, analogous to Genghis Khan's horde ability.

Just imagine how heterodox and hodgepodge their armies would look... exactly like they should.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think Carthage could easily have some kind of pentekonter or quinquireme as its UU...

...but I still would really like Hannibal to return with his war elephants.

His ability should be multifaceted like Roosevelt's, with both a bonus and an extra UU. Hannibal should get a war elephant as his special leader UU plus maybe a mercenary general ability to let him recruit random infantry from among those he fights or encounters, analogous to Genghis Khan's horde ability.

Just imagine how heterodox and hodgepodge their armies would look... exactly like they should.

There are only 8 UU in the expansion. That's not enough for any civ to have a leader UU.

 

[liv]

but that was India right. the new civs could all have a uu??/?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

but that was India right. the new civs could all have a uu??/?

Yes. The new civs all have 1 UU each. None have 2.

 

[liv]

Yes. The new civs all have 1 UU each. None have 2.

Yes so not both a boat and a war elephant.
War elephant makes sense but is making them another war monger civ though?

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Yes so not both a boat and a war elephant.
War elephant makes sense but is making them another war monger civ though?

The war elephant is a bit contrived and is mostly associated with one campaign. The boat would be better.

 

[The Kingmaker]

There are only 8 UU in the expansion. That's not enough for any civ to have a leader UU.

I honestly don't think Carthage is going to make it in this XP. After the Cree, I'm expecting the Inca, the Turks, one of these African civs: Mali/Ethiopia/Zulu, and maybe Georgia for the gimmick.

 

[Zaarin]

In my vision if Civ7 (I have a full spreadsheet full of Civs and possible abilities because I am a huge dork), Assyria, Babylon and Sumeria are all mutually exclusive. They also share their UI (Ziggurat) and Civ bonus with one another. Something among those lines would work for me, just not under the current system.

Historically that doesn't really make sense. Old Babylon and Sumeria were contemporary, and Neo-Babylon and Assyria were contemporary (and not always clearly distinguishable, as they conquered each other a few times). They certainly overlapped to an extent, but their "core territory" was distinct: Sumer was in southern Mesopotamia, Babylon in the northeast, and Assyria in the northwest.

The war elephant is a bit contrived and is mostly associated with one campaign. The boat would be better.

So much this. I love Hannibal, but can we please not have another iteration of Carthage based solely on Hannibal's Alpine campaign? There's so much to Carthaginian history than that. I mean, they were the first Mediterranean civilization to visit the Canaries or sail down the coast of West Africa. Some historians speculate they even made it to Southeast Asia or North America. Both stories are probably fanciful, but it's still a reminder of the Carthaginians' reputation as explorers, not just "Rome's enemy." (And incidentally, Rome and Carthage did butt heads exactly because Carthage was the premier naval power in the Mediterranean at the time.)

 

[The Kingmaker]

That's why I want a Carthage with both. The navy is effective and would support their strong naval play style, and the elephant is simply iconic.

I would withdraw the recommendation if Firaxis would simply make a standard elephant unit. As it is, only India and the Khmer can recruit elephants at all. More nations than these used elephants.

They should be recruitable with the ivory resource.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Dido is mostly known for marrying rich, tricking the local king with an oxhide and setting herself on fire. Not too Golden-Agey; The potential I see for a Dido trait consists of "Major Adjecency bonus from pastures" and "faster border expansion". The obvious bonuses of "extra land upon city settling" and "pastures culture bomb" have already been taken, so...

 

[Zaarin]

That's why I want a Carthage with both. The navy is effective and would support their strong naval play style, and the elephant is simply iconic.

I would withdraw the recommendation if Firaxis would simply make a standard elephant unit. As it is, only India and the Khmer can recruit elephants at all. More nations than these used elephants.

They should be recruitable with the ivory resource.

Well, strictly speaking, elephants have never been widely used in warfare because they're temperamental, costly to maintain, and easily spooked. They have been widely used as draft animals, though, which is already represented by the hammers ivory provides.

 

[liv]

Not quite how I remember her from from Virgil LOL

Dido is mostly known for marrying rich, tricking the local king with an oxhide and setting herself on fire. Not too Golden-Agey; The potential I see for a Dido trait consists of "Major Adjecency bonus from pastures" and "faster border expansion". The obvious bonuses of "extra land upon city settling" and "pastures culture bomb" have already been taken, so...

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

If you want to give Carthage an "opponent of Rome" flavor without the elephant, you could give the land units a combat bonus when adjacent to naval units.

 

[Guandao]

Historically that doesn't really make sense. Old Babylon and Sumeria were contemporary, and Neo-Babylon and Assyria were contemporary (and not always clearly distinguishable, as they conquered each other a few times). They certainly overlapped to an extent, but their "core territory" was distinct: Sumer was in southern Mesopotamia, Babylon in the northeast, and Assyria in the northwest.


So much this. I love Hannibal, but can we please not have another iteration of Carthage based solely on Hannibal's Alpine campaign? There's so much to Carthaginian history than that. I mean, they were the first Mediterranean civilization to visit the Canaries or sail down the coast of West Africa. Some historians speculate they even made it to Southeast Asia or North America. Both stories are probably fanciful, but it's still a reminder of the Carthaginians' reputation as explorers, not just "Rome's enemy." (And incidentally, Rome and Carthage did butt heads exactly because Carthage was the premier naval power in the Mediterranean at the time.)

They made it to Southeast Asia and North America? Where's the proof? Any Carthaginian artifacts found in SE Asia and N America?