Battle Tactic Speculation

Tyrael

ALC Lurker
Joined
Jun 25, 2007
Messages
228
Location
Computer
From the E3 article about the hands off demo: http://gamerlimit.com/2010/06/e310-civilization-v-hands-off-demo-hexagon-fury/
The demo showed a single infantry unit battle three opposing units before being eradicated.

This makes me think that putting a line or two of weak, cheap units in relation to current-era units (think warriors vs axes) in front of a line or two of current ranged units (cats) could be an ideal strategy. The enemy can only position so many units where they could attack your forces, and they can only attack once per turn (presumably). They attack your warriors with their axes (or the Civ5 equivalent), which hopefully soaks up two hits. This affords them one hit vs. a cat in the back row. You lose a good number of warriors and maybe a cat, but then your cats can devastate their axes. You lose X cheap warriors, but get to destroy more or less that many of their axes, so you come out ahead in terms of hammers. Fill in the spots with more meatshields and repeat.

The concept is that you can attack with more units than they can if you have more siege within attack range- since melee units have to fill up a square to attack, and then no other units can attack from that square, creating a shortage of a tactical resource (squares from which they can attack from) while avoiding such a limitation for yourself (ranged units don't use up squares). This lets you attack with more units per turn, which should translate directly to more damage dealt hammer-wise. Furthermore, you limit the cost of such a manouver by using as cheap of units as possible, increasing the hammer loss differential.

I'm hoping this won't be the case- if both sides set up such a formation, it could easily stalemate, especially with the fairly low unit movements. I'd expect roads to be hugely important for the defender to force the attacker to send more meatshields or punish their backlines.

PS- I used to play Advance Wars competitively, where infantry backed by artillery/tanks (harder hitting units) was ideal. Civ5 looks more and more to me like it will mimic the AW combat style.
 
It is looking a lot like the initial deployment of troops will be very important - and heavily dictated by terrain: one of the screen-shots shows a -33% penalty for defending in open terrain.

It will also be very important to hold/break lines, as adjacent friendly units provide a 15% defensive bonus and we've seen flanking bonuses of 25 or 30%. Isolated units will be easy pickings.

And, yes, I think it is reasonable to expect the Infantry and Artillery to be very important.
 
Actually it's supposedly mimicing a series of games from SSI, the Panzer General series (which Advance Wars itself kinda clones).

In short, I agree that such tactical combat and problems therein could be a huge focus and concern - quite quickly it will be seen if multi-tile ranged combat for instance ends up very broken, or very useless, the balance in between could be quite hard to find and I'm not sure they would have found it.
 
A line of infantry with AT guns spaced between then, and artillery behind the line positioned on hilltops would be a good defensive strategy. I really really hope that the AI is smart enough to do that, because then I can practice blitzkrieg!

I really hope that CiV allows us to have some kind of "motorized" infantry like they did in Panzer General. Motorized infantry were incredibly useful in flanking the enemy. If this is in CiV, the ideal offensive strategy would be an initial attack by armored divisions at specific points in the line, followed by sending large amounts of infantry through the breach and then attacking the line on both sides, getting a huge flanking bonus.
 
I really hope that CiV allows us to have some kind of "motorized" infantry like they did in Panzer General. Motorized infantry were incredibly useful in flanking the enemy.

I can't see any reason why there wouldn't be. Mounted units should play this role through most of the game though.
 
well it would be a bit more complicated than just having one infantry unit and having armour succeed the role of mounted units.
 
A line of infantry with AT guns spaced between then, and artillery behind the line positioned on hilltops would be a good defensive strategy. I really really hope that the AI is smart enough to do that, because then I can practice blitzkrieg!

I really hope that CiV allows us to have some kind of "motorized" infantry like they did in Panzer General. Motorized infantry were incredibly useful in flanking the enemy. If this is in CiV, the ideal offensive strategy would be an initial attack by armored divisions at specific points in the line, followed by sending large amounts of infantry through the breach and then attacking the line on both sides, getting a huge flanking bonus.

Ive seen mechanised infantry in one of the new vids, wasn't shown attakcing or defending, but they were definetly APC's. Or im a squirrel.
 
Ive seen mechanised infantry in one of the new vids, wasn't shown attakcing or defending, but they were definetly APC's. Or im a squirrel.

well we've had "mechanized infantry" since at least Civ III, and it was always APCs.

what I hope is that sometime we can simply augment normal infantry with vehicles so that they get only a movement bonus. It would be, ideally, a significant component of offensive wars.
 
I'm curious as to whether inland lakes will serve as impassable barriers any more. Used to be, mountains and inland lakes were excellent for narrowing the battle lines. But if all land units can now build their own personal transport ships, that could be a nasty surprise if you thought you'd protected your flanks.
 
I can see amphibious landings becoming much more complicated and risky, though with much more reward in the end (as it should be). You can no longer "sneak" armies behind the enemy, but if you manage to establish a sizeable beach head you can open up another front, devastating the enemy.

Kinda like what happened after the Marines landed at Inchon.
 
I'm curious as to whether inland lakes will serve as impassable barriers any more. Used to be, mountains and inland lakes were excellent for narrowing the battle lines. But if all land units can now build their own personal transport ships, that could be a nasty surprise if you thought you'd protected your flanks.

well on large inland lakes, you'll probably be able to build some ships, which will of course makle that action very danerous.
 
Blitzkrieg!:king:

I hope the tech gap will be larger, in order to prevent this problem.
 
I do really like how having naval might seems like it'll allow you to really shut down any chance of an amphibious assault. Makes the historical English defense of massing ships viable.
 
From the E3 article about the hands off demo: http://gamerlimit.com/2010/06/e310-civilization-v-hands-off-demo-hexagon-fury/


This makes me think that putting a line or two of weak, cheap units in relation to current-era units (think warriors vs axes) in front of a line or two of current ranged units (cats) could be an ideal strategy. The enemy can only position so many units where they could attack your forces, and they can only attack once per turn (presumably). They attack your warriors with their axes (or the Civ5 equivalent), which hopefully soaks up two hits. This affords them one hit vs. a cat in the back row. You lose a good number of warriors and maybe a cat, but then your cats can devastate their axes. You lose X cheap warriors, but get to destroy more or less that many of their axes, so you come out ahead in terms of hammers. Fill in the spots with more meatshields and repeat.

The concept is that you can attack with more units than they can if you have more siege within attack range- since melee units have to fill up a square to attack, and then no other units can attack from that square, creating a shortage of a tactical resource (squares from which they can attack from) while avoiding such a limitation for yourself (ranged units don't use up squares). This lets you attack with more units per turn, which should translate directly to more damage dealt hammer-wise. Furthermore, you limit the cost of such a manouver by using as cheap of units as possible, increasing the hammer loss differential.

I'm hoping this won't be the case- if both sides set up such a formation, it could easily stalemate, especially with the fairly low unit movements. I'd expect roads to be hugely important for the defender to force the attacker to send more meatshields or punish their backlines.

PS- I used to play Advance Wars competitively, where infantry backed by artillery/tanks (harder hitting units) was ideal. Civ5 looks more and more to me like it will mimic the AW combat style.

I think you've left out an important step - the counter to this is that the attacker uses *his* artillery to weaken the meatshield before he attacks. If the meatshield is composed of weaker troops, it will be destroyed by the catapults before the stronger troops - allowing the stronger troops to break through and attack the (largely defenseless?) catapults. So the defender ends up losing the meatshields and the catapults, while the attacker ends up losing fewer melee units, and no catapults.
 
I do really like how having naval might seems like it'll allow you to really shut down any chance of an amphibious assault. Makes the historical English defense of massing ships viable.

I agree completely naval combat was always scetchy with stacks, because a sod could come from any direction, no way of defending against it, now you just spam ships and annhilate anything that tries to cross the water muchg more effectively.
 
Back
Top Bottom